musings and misadventures: HTT

6.17.2008

HTT - Modesty Edition

Miss Dub and I recently went swimsuit shopping since at 19 months she is already growing out of her 2T suit. (Is this normal?)

I told her she could pick one out, and pick she did - a nice tropical-patterned one with a plunging neckline and deep backside. Whaaaat?

I had to give her a quick lecture on modesty, which I really hadn't been planning to deliver for a few more years. As a result, it was a little haphazard and may have included the word "skeezy."

I'm all for kids clothes that mimic certain adult fashions. I adore a toddler in capris or a cropped sweater; I love tiny Converse or Pumas - but I do not want my daughter dressing like a grown vixen.

I think some people take this concept too far - it troubles me when I see a 3-year-old in a one-piece outfit with snaps, and I'm not into baby clothes adorned with Winnie the Pooh*. Also, I'm totally cool with my daughter wearing sleeveless tops or dresses, as long as they don't have spaghetti straps or the aforementioned Pooh graphics.

But small girls in plunging halters and skimpy bikinis trouble me. Not only because they are a pedophile's dream, but because such fashions send a message that more skin is better. (And that how you look is more important than who you are.)

I mean, they sell thong underwear in some children shops. Seriously? Because I don't think VPL should be a concern for someone who still wets the bed.

But obviously someone is buying it because it's available at most stores, and I see it on little girls in my area, although winter makes modesty more common.

What do you think?

Are we dressing our kids older than we should?

What are the fashion rules at your house?

And who is buying all the Pooh Bear clothes at Target?* (If you are, I never wrote that.)

*If you haven't caught on yet, I'm concerned about Pooh Bear's intentions. No offense to the rest of the Hundred-Acre Woods posse.

50 comments:

steph said...: i'm totally with you. i don't have little girls, but it saddens me to see little girls dressed as mini-hoochies.

i'd say that i dress pretty modestly, and it always scares me when i see a 13 year old in daisy dukes and a crop top... i had one girlfriend in middle school who was that girl in those clothes, and she always tried to get me to wear 'em too. fortunately, i just couldn't.

she turned out to star in adult films. yes, adult films. now, i don't blame her teen clothing, but her lack of modesty grew with age b/c by the time she turned 19, she didn't need the short-shorts nor the crop top...; 6:23 AM
The Shabby Princess said...: I don't have any little ones yet, but, up until 13 months ago, I was a childrens gymnastics/dance/you get the idea instructor--and, it really blew my mind what a lot of the little girls I taught would wear to class. I suppose, it isn't always the clothes themselves but the act of wearing them--the attitude that certain clothes can create in some cases-ex: I had little girls who thought they were you know, 14 because they had on a mini skirt (!) or something like that.

I wasn't exactly given the "modesty talk" if you will, it was more of an understanding that I had with my mom, and I knew the rules. Although, I won't lie, there were several times when my mother did send me back into my room to change, etc (hello, I was a teenager).... I want my children to understand that no, more skin is not OK and that dressing in a more conservative fashion will get you a lot more in the long run.

Sadly, my half sister, who is much younger than I (and my dad and stepmom don't so much have the modesty rule for many reasons), often dresses like a teenager and thinks Lindsay Lohan is awesome. I also once caught her hamming it for a camera in a too big halter tank and nearly had a heart attack.; 9:14 AM
Super B said...: Oh boy...you always have such great hot topics. I am totally with you on this one. I do not like clothes with ANY characters on them! I was at Babies R Us and found the cutest dress but right on front was ELMO. No way!
Anyhow. I grew up in a very modest home. I am sure going to keep the same rules in my home. NO two-piece swimsuits (although nowadays we have to be careful when getting one pieces too.) NO sleeveless shirts/dresses (my mom made 3 of my 4 formal dresses because we had a hard time finding ones with sleeves.) NO skirts/dresses above the knee. (I admit, in FL I have all knee length skirts now, but they are at least at my knee or below by a couple/few inches.)NO shirts that show the mid-drift or back and also NO shirts that are TOO tight (It may cover you up, but if it is skin tight, that is nearly as bad.)
I also hate the idea of Hannah Montanna clothes and girls wanting to dress like her or LiLo or any other pop star/movie star.
It is getting harder and harder to maintain modesty. I just WISH US ALL LUCK!!; 9:32 AM
Beckie said...: OK I totally agree! And my daughter has started to strike this ok let's call it her "sexy pose!" AHHH I mean come on she is 4 years old! and about those underwear - I was watching my niece the other day (because my sister just had her baby) and I was doing some laundry and was a little shocked at the skimpy bikini style underwear that my niece had! so yes it is bought.
and about Pooh. i can say I have never bought any, but for some reason (maybe it is because when i was a baby my nursery was done in pooh) but people seem to buy it for me all the time... so that would be my child wearing the pooh stuff...sigh; 9:45 AM
Carina said...: Just be glad you were not around for the low rider pants phenom a few years ago. Some knuckleheads decided it would be a good idea to make ALL CHILDREN'S pants low riders.

Hello.

DIAPERS.

That's what happens when people without children go around deciding what clothes we'll be able to buy; tt was a catastrophe.; 10:20 AM
acte gratuit said...: You would think living in a house with three little boys I wouldn't have this problem. But just last night Max came out with his "pajama's" on which consisted of shorts and one of Sam's Hanes cotton t-shirts. The thing has shrunk to virtual oblivion, so Max was showing QUITE a bit of tummy. It was extremely disturbing so to compensate I just pulled his shorts way up. For some reason, that made everything worse so after that I just sent him to bed with no "cuddle".

That'll learn 'im to commit crimes against fashion and modesty!

I'm okay with Pooh and other characters as long as they're super small and confined to clothing for the very young. Not because I love them, but because they make little kids so darn happy. So what do I care?; 10:41 AM
Queen Elizabeth said...: I totally agree with everything that's been said.

It makes me I-N-S-A-N-E when I see little girls (and yes, even not very "little" girls) at the beach or pool WITHOUT A TOP ON!!! I completely don't get that. Especially when we don't live in Europe.

Tough call: It's 90 degrees outside and it's 90% humidity. Luckily, we're usually utilizing our swimwear at those times. But when my girls aren't at the pool. I just say no spaghetti straps.

My 9 year old "gets it" much more than my 7 year old Miley Cyrus wannabe. Ugh.; 10:50 AM
Carina said...: p.s. I am not a big one for character clothing, but my mother in law can't help herself. So, I use all the Elmo shirts and Thomas shirts for my sons' play clothes. If I know they are going to be destroying their clothes, they get the character stuff.; 10:52 AM
Amber (EyesofAmber) said...: We only have boys thus far, but we have our modesty standards set in place already, even for them. No muscle shirts, no tank tops. It has to have sleeves. None of the tiny tight little gym shorts. I sometimes walk past the little girl's section in the store and think to myself that I don't know how anyone manages to find decent, modest clothes for little girls.

As for when and if girls arrive, no sleeveless tops, no back or midriff showing, nothing skin tight, no skirts above the knee once they get past the toddler phase. (It's just too hard to crawl in a long skirt...lol) Two-piece bathing suits are fine as long as they are full coverage, ie, tankini style. My maternity suit is a tankini and offers more coverage than I could find in a one-piece maternity.

As for the character clothes, I'm sure I've said this here before, but I absolutely allow those. I think they're cute and my children love them. They're children and I let them dress like children. (We won't discuss the fact that I have a maternity shirt with Eeyore on the front.) I am a Winnie the Pooh fan and the crib set that I've used for all three boys so far is Classic Pooh. For this baby, I'm wanting to find something different. I think if a character makes them excited about getting dressed or happy about how they feel in their clothes, it's not a problem. I have a much bigger issue with children wearing clothes with inappropriate sayings. We actually once saw a family out with their infant dressed in a shirt that said, "I can kick your baby's a**" Now that, I take issue with.; 10:53 AM
Angy said...: agreed! what in the world are some people allowing their kids to dress up in?! or lack there of? ridiculous.

winnie the pooh, however, on itty bitty babies i think is kinda cute :) just not an over abundance :P; 10:55 AM
hilari said...: you know what my main problem is? those who require a one year old to wear an ill fitting white t-shirt under a perfectly cute sundress. come on, it may be more covered up but it looks terrible!; 11:29 AM
janaya said...: totally with you on this one. though of course, i did my fair share of split second changes in the highschool bathroom so i could wear the shirt or skirt that had been frowned upon before leaving for school. but there was a definite line in my house, and i knew exactly where it was... to the point that i don't even think there actually was a frown in the morning now that i think about it, i just "knew better" than to even try and slip out the door in "immodest" clothes. but i was 16... i couldn't help myself. :)

but i will say this... in my opinion, pointing out the positives of modest attire and helping girls understand why they're actually more attractive and have reason to be more confident when they're not baring all, AND helping them to find cute "in style" attire that's still modest, is much more effective than a big long list of no's and don'ts (at least from my wardrobe-rebellion experience).; 11:31 AM
Jessi said...: Agree on the modesty issue 100 percent!!

But I have to say that I'm starting to give in a little to the character clothes. My youngest has a pair of Little Mermaid pajamas and EVERY time she puts them on she thanks me for washing them for her. :); 11:33 AM
Young Family said...: I took Hayden to the splash park last night and there were quite a few girls (probbaly about 10-12 years old) and even a 1 year old in bikinis. It drives me crazy.

I went shopping with my mom and 6 year old niece a few weeks ago and it was hard to find cute clothes for a six year old. Everything was slutty or just not age appropriate. I think kids should dress like kids. There will be plenty of time t wear adult styles. For now put them in cute little outfits with matching bows.; 11:49 AM
ANN said...: Not only do I completely agree with Mrs. Dub, but who doesn't? Clearly, it's lots of people, because I see very upsetting clothing everywhere. It's not just a problem for the wee ones (which I agree is the worst!), but I saw a father and his 13-year-old daughter at the mall the other day and I could see half of her cheek (the other cheek). I don't know about anyone else, but my father would have marched me back up the stairs and threatened a serious grounding. But, I digress.

It's additionally sad for me because a parent's job is to set a good example. I remember when I got my first two-piece suit. It was a major milestone in my life. I had to wait a long time and beg a lot of times before I could have that tankini. I feel like these kids miss the opportunity to know what it's like to work and wait for something they really want. These kids are learning that bad judgment and instant gratification are normal things and (I think we all agree) that's having negative consequences all over the place.; 12:09 PM
Elisa said...: Pooh bear is creepy. I really hate character clothing on babies. Ick

Dressing your girls like Oh-Knats? or in other words a stank ho-- is mind boggling to me. But people do it. why? I dunno. Crack maybe? I just don't think people don't THINK. Like when my neighbor was telling his daughter to buy *these* pants cause they boys like girls in *these* pants (read: tight)... WHAT?! She's 12!

I firmly believe that the standards have to be set at a young age... otherwise how do you convince a 16 year old that those hoochie mama pants are inappropriate now?? when just 2 years ago you bought them (or something similar) for her?; 1:17 PM
Leisha Mareth said...: I'm totally with you. Certain tot-sized adult clothes are darling, but not the sexy ones...why would anyone put their kid in a suit that looks like a 70's string bikini? Bleccccckkkk! Grossness.

I guess someone is buying them, they are everywhere (those hip-hugger jeans for 2-3 year olds were a nightmare!)

I can't shop at certain stores anymore (*cough*OldNavy*cough*) because it's hard for me to find non "skeezy" clothes for my daughter (unless I shop online..)

As my daughter says..."It is totally grody to the max dude..."; 2:00 PM
Leisha Mareth said...: oh-knats...i love it.; 2:02 PM
Anonymous said...: No tank tops or sleeveless for little boys? Amber you can do what ya want with your own kids but in the summer if a kid wants to wear a tank top whats the harm? Where do you buy tight little gym shorts anyway?; 2:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Amber the fact that you wear an Eyore shirt at all means you need an intervention-Thats WAAAYYY worse than a 6 year old in a wife-beater and shorts. Its 2008!; 2:47 PM
Emma said...: I am about to have my first girl, but the modesty issue is well established with my two boys already.
They don't wear muscle shirts/tanks tops etc. And will wear a shirt in the house and outside. We even talk to them about getting dressed in their room or the bathroom and not running around in their underwear.
The same rules will apply to my girl(s - we can hope). Sleeves are a must. Skirts need to be long enough, and all clothing should not be tight fitting.
You have to start early, but as someone mentioned, how do you explain that something they wore a year ago is no longer OK to wear?

It really bothers me when I see little kids dressed immodestly. And who thought it was a good idea to have something written across the seat of little girl's pants???

As for the character clothing... I don't really care. My kids don't have a lot of it - usually because it costs more. As long as it's something I would allow them to watch it doesn't bother me.; 2:52 PM
Layton Mom said...: I am not a huge fan of characters on clothing either. Not quite sure why. I am also with you on the modesty thing. That being said I do allow tanks nad the like as long as they cover what they are meant to cover.

I figure I must be doing something right: I took my 5 yr old b-day shopping and she wanted a new swimsuit. She picked a very nice one piece with matching shorts. Score one for mom!; 3:01 PM
Colleen said...: I'm actually surprised no one has dared disagree with you, considering the number of bikini clad children out there. I'm totally with you, 100%. "Pedophile's dream" is actually a term I thought I'd coined. :); 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: emma, you sound like a person that is wierdly uncomfortable about the human body. not that i am pro tank tops for boys, hello, their ugly, but come on, who thinks a boys arms showing is immodest.

actually, lets just all start wearing pioneer dresses. then we can really be modest.; 4:19 PM
brookegfunk said...: I think girls and boys of all ages should be modest.I think some people of our faith get freaky about modesty. I would also like to add that a Pedophile doesnt care what your child is wearing.; 4:31 PM
sara said...: My neighbor has several Hundred Acre Wood character tees that she often wears, with some VERY "mom" jeans and yes I agree that her crime of fashion rivals the modesty issue.

We don't get 2-pc swimsuits for our little girls. Their school says no spaghetti straps so that's good. Strappy sundresses around the house in the summertime is fine with me but for the most baring ones I make them put a shirt under before we go out somewhere. A friend of mine has the rule that at age 8 her kids have to start following "the standards" and dressing how they will hopefully dress the rest of their life.; 5:57 PM
LCM said...: We started young with our girls too. I didn't want to explain to them how something was okay last year and is all of a sudden not okay this year. So, no tank tops, no short shorts, hurrah for Target's long shorts for girls this year. I had to go to the boys section for a few years to get shorts for my really long legged girl. She also requested swim shorts because she felt uncomfortable by how her new swimsuit fit.; 7:36 PM
Amber (EyesofAmber) said...: For those who've made comments about little boys arms showing, it's simply that we dress my children to the same standards that their father dresses. Little boys want to be like their dads. I agree with what several others have said, we want to avoid the "well, that was okay last year but not this year" issue. It's just easier if the standards are the same from the beginning.; 8:06 PM
Anonymous said...: I just don't get why character T-shirts are "creepy". My little boy wears character tees every day, because that's what he likes. I have a friend whose little boy perpetually looks like he fell out of a GAP add (a.k.a. looks exactly like an adult). They're kids... kids like cartoons... they'll have plenty of time to be adults later.

And for those of you who are teaching your children modesty, both girls AND boys, thank you! And, let's be real, folks. If it's 100 degrees out, who cares if you are wearing a tank or a T-shirt, it's still hot!! If we dressed how would make us most comfortable, well, there'd be no need. We'd be just one big nudist colony.; 8:27 PM
zeeny said...: I loved Hilari's comment about the sundresses. I don't see a problem with letting my two year old wear a sundress to church. After all, she is two. I think we too often make our girls feel badly about their bodies. Wearing a sleeveless dress is not a crime, especially for a baby. I think as long as you teach from a young age about modesty, and that showing your arm is okay, but showing the side of you boob isn't (can I say boob on your blog?!) Let them be little and enjoy not being so covered in 95 degrees with 100 percent humidity!
Also, tankini's, can we say hallelujah! Finally, I don't have to roll wet swim suits up and down for my little girls to go potty. (They really hate pulling them to the side) I actually think a well fitting tankini is a bit less revealing than a one piece. Love the long tops and that the kids can go potty on their own!; 8:41 PM
zeeny said...: One more thing (since I havn't said enough!) I don't really get the argument that it is ok last year but not this year. Well, my two year old doesn't have breasts. I think as kids mature you talk openly with them. Talk about their bodies and the changes and how with these changes comes time for making sure these areas are covered. Let kids be kids. I won't put my girls in booty shorts or bikinis, but a sundress, or skirt/dress above the knees is totally fine with me.; 8:49 PM
Amber (EyesofAmber) said...: I should probably leave well enough alone, but I did feel compelled to mention that my earlier posts were not attacking or criticizing to any person here. Unfortunately the same can not be said for the responses to my comment. I also have to say that the low-rise jeans are wonderful for me, beause they hit me at the waist, any other style of jeans instantly become "Mom" jeans on me. However, they should never, ever, ever be worn with thongs! I have seen way too much of other people's bodies in very public settings that way. Low-rise jeans are wonderful for certain body types, but not really meant to give you the plumber effect, or put on children to show diaper! I believe there was an SNL skit about thong diapers to get rid of that terrible diaper line.

To further explain the "it used to be okay but now it's not", yes, as a child they don't have breasts, but in my opinion you do more damage to their body image when teaching them that because their breasts have developed, they must now be covered up. I feel like that gives them the message that there is something wrong with their body now that must be hidden or be ashamed of. I have NO issue with anyone else putting their babies and children in tops without sleeves, that's just not the choice that we've made for our children. I certainly do not think that makes you a "bad" parent. The lack of sleeves is certainly not the issue here. I don't expect everyone to follow my standards, I'm simply sharing what the rules are in our house.

I applaud all the parents out there and on here who are bucking the trend of immodesty=fashionable and dressing their children like young men and young ladies. And please, can't we all play nice?; 9:52 PM
zeeny said...: I can see your point about the breasts but I also think it is appropriate to teach them to cover up at the appropriate time. To me there is nothing wrong with a girl wearing sleeveless tops, shorts above the knee, etc. But you are right that we all do what we feel the most comfortable with. As long as we feel good about our choices I think our kids will all be fine!; 10:54 PM
Will Murdoch said...: Just wait until she's older. It will be REALLY difficult to find modest and normal clothes.; 11:23 PM
Cichelli said...: My only thought here is this: thank goodness I have boys.; 11:51 PM
Leisha Mareth said...: Okay Mrs. Dub I'm smelling a "character vs. non-character" hot topic (I know it has been discussed, but I don't think it's had it's own post has it? I can't remember.)

I will begin preparing the "interventions" (p.s. I'm just kidding...); 9:17 AM
emily & david said...: This is going to be a tough, constant issue in our house with 2 cute girls running around.

I think little girls can wear shorts and tank tops until they're "of age," a.k.a have curves to hide. Once that day comes, we have a serious crack down and permit only knee-length and sleeved items. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a 6-year old in a cute short and tank set in the summer. They don't doom them to an immodest future!; 9:33 AM
Emma said...: Thank-you Amber for commenting. It seems like we both have the same idea. Different people have different ideas of what their children should wear. I wanted to defend myself after some of the other comments. But I'm not one to argue. (Although it is easier, when you aren't talking face to face!)

Why single me out when I'm not the only one who doesn't have their boys in tank tops? Believe it or not my boys go topless at the beach, and I wear a tank top over my swim suit - heaven forbid! - sorry I get a little sarcastic when I'm defensive. I am not "weirdly uncomfortable about the human body". That made me laugh. Comments on a blog obviously don't reveal everything about a person.; 11:57 AM
Anonymous said...: emma,
then what's with the tank top over the swimsuit?; 12:10 PM
Emma said...: I guess I didn't explain. I meant that I do wear tank tops just while I'm heading to the pool or the beach. Not in the water. Sorry, my mistake.; 12:21 PM
Lindsey from The R House said...: i'm so glad that my babies are boys. this is the reason my husband is terrified of having daughters. seriously. he has nightmares.

...and janaya and i could have been bff in high school. i did the same thing only i was stupid enough to come home in the "secret" outfit.; 12:46 PM
Kate said...: I always love Janaya's comments. I also love Hilari's.
I would consider myself a very modest person, but my little boys can wear tank tops (even though I think they're so ugly) and my 9-mo.-old baby girl has some strappy sundresses. I'm totally with Zeeny on everything she said.; 1:08 PM
Carolyn said...: If you are LDS, then the modesty issue is very clearly spelled out for us in the Strength of Youth pamphlet. It is very specific about all kinds of topics and is a wonderful reference for standards. I would quote it, but it's rather long--just go look it up if you're curious-- you can find it on lds.org if you don't have the pamphlet. As to when to START abiding by these standards, I feel that is totally up to each parent--however, by the time they are approaching young men and young women age, hopefully you are able to easily establish those guidlines spelled out for us in the pamphlet--so, I guess the sooner we start, the easier that will be.; 7:27 PM
Tia said...: As a non-mormon, I'm curious as to how you all draw the line between "modest" and "shame." I think most everyone would agree that girls in booty shorts is off-putting (let's face it, women in booty shorts is off-putting!). But what's wrong with tank tops? Are you teaching your girls to be ashamed of their arms and they need to cover them up? And sundresses are cute and comfy and flowy. What's wrong with that? By telling your girls to only wear long skirts, are you teaching them to be ashamed of their legs? Wha'cha got against knees? I don't find knees to be sexy! :); 8:14 PM
Capturing Joy with Kristen Duke said...: Tia-to help you better understand, in our faith, adults are asked to abide by certain modesty codes that include shorts/dresses to appoximately the knee and tops that are not sleeveless....cap sleeves are about the shortest. So I think the discussion here with young children is: A) do we teach them to abide by this code as a child so that when they are an adult it won't be so difficult to change or B) assume that its just fine that they are children and no harm is done. Sundresses are beautiful, but I think it is about "spaghetti straps" here where as adults, we will usually wear a top under the strappy dress, and children don't have to.

I enjoyed reading the discussion here, and for the most part, I've chosen not to do the tank thing with my kids (1 girl, 2 boys) because I think it does set a level of confusion when they get to the age of 8 or 9 or 10 when they say..."I wore that as a 2 year old, why do I have to change now?" I say to each his own. I have a friend who had her son wear a shirt and tie at age 3 when he entered primary because she didn't want to hear him complain about it at 12. I don't do that, but I see where she is coming from, and I've decided to do that when my son turns 8 and is baptized.

On a side note: I'm a "pooh hater" and usually don't like buying into the pop culture of disney stuff on all items, but my kids do have superman, star wars, hulk, etc t-shirts. I draw the line there though...can't do character shoes or other items. They've got plenty of toys, I don't feel I"m depriving them there.; 9:28 PM
Chellie said...: I am totally against character clothes, but only for my own children. If some other child wears it, I don't think twice about it. The character clothes are "cheesy" and usually not very stylish.

As for modesty, I think it's ridiculous that someone feels like they have to wear a t-shirt under a spaghetti strap dress. That is not immodest to say the least. What's the big deal with a little shoulder and arm and a darling sundress?

Don't get me wrong, I believe modesty is important and everyone should be tactful with what they choose to wear, but some people are overboard as well as far as what they can wear.; 2:02 PM
KatieJ said...: I am very disturbed by the sexy little girl clothes. Their attitudes definately change with the clothes they wear. My oldest caught onto modestly early, when she was 3, but now that she's 7 she wants to wear some things that I'm not ok with. LOL about the Pooh clothes- I can't do it either, and it's sad to find something totally cute on the sale rack and I pull it out and see Pooh- darn. I bought my daughter a Strawberry shortcake outfit once, (when she was 3) she was with me and was dying for it, and it was really cute. And Strawberry is totally different than Pooh...; 2:41 AM
Anonymous said...: I realize I'm a little late getting in on the discussion, but I just have to put this out there -for those of us who are LDS and choose to follow the counsel of the living prophets then you wouldn't allow sleeveless tops as per "The Strength of Youth" and a quote by Pres. Lee (My friend and I were having this modesty discussion about 4 years ago when we had our first kiddos, that's why I know about this quote) - so here's the quote: "Careless mothers who permit even in childhood or babyhood nudity or
semi-nudity in dress are but sowing seeds of disregard for standards of modesty which if taught and adhered to in her growing-up years will prepare a daughter for entrance into the holy and sacred ordinances of
the Lord" (Conference Report, 5 April 1957).; 12:01 AM
Anonymous said...: i'm late coming to the discussion,too, so i'm not sure anyone will read this. i like amanda's quote, but i still think it's open to interpretation. are you sure that semi-nudity refers to sleeveless clothes and not things like midriffs? i don't consider bare shoulders to be semi-nudity myself. also, the fsoy pamphet says this, "Immodest clothing includes short shorts, tight pants, and other revealing attire. Young women should refrain from wearing off-the-shoulder, low-cut, or revealing clothes. Young men should similarly maintain modesty in their dress. All should avoid tight fitting or revealing clothes and extremes in clothing and appearance." i don't think that sleeveless - meaning missing caps only - is the same as "off-the-shoulder." modesty is more than rules - it's determining what's appropriate for yourself and your family.; 9:32 AM
Capturing Joy with Kristen Duke said...: wow, ammanda, thank you for that quote.; 10:56 AM