A lot of you have told me you love Hot Topic Tuesday. My stat-meter indicates that more people check out M&M on Tuesdays than any other day of the week combined, so it must be readable. Good thing because it gives me an ulcer. It's not that I don't enjoy discussing controversial issues; they are things I'm already discussing with friends and family, so I'm happy to get them out of my mind to analyze what I believe. Sometimes I'm adamant and hope to persuade you. Other times, I'm looking for more insight. But every single time, I feel like I have to write and rewrite and soften everything one more time so I don't offend someone - even though it's my blog.
Why, you ask? First, I don't like to offend people, even though I wish they wouldn't take it personally. Second, because when someone goes off on me in the comments or criticizes my parenting, it affects me. I'm open to dispute, just not disparagement. And it's even worse when readers attack each other. Sometimes my whole Tuesday goes from great to gloomy just because no one is playing nice and usually they are named Anonymous. (Who knew it was such a popular name?)
Which brings me - yes, three paragraphs later - to today's Hot Topic: blogger etiquette. On one hand, I'm a huge blogging fan. I feel like I know more about my friends and family now than I used to. It goes beyond chit-chat - I get to see pictures and hear details about day-to-day activities, which is a better glimpse into their lives than a short phone call.
On the other hand, blogging brings out the worst in some people. It makes them mini-experts on every topic, and gives them permission to pass judgment on people they don't even know - who are not public figures. I feel like some people are just waiting to jump all over someone if they make the slightest mistake, as if bloggers should be held to journalistic standards.
Even our so-called friends are abusing the blog medium. I've had friends receive rude and critical remarks from friends, both openly and anonymously. I've also heard of people posting anonymously to others' blogs, or their own (I plead the Fifth!) to say something in their defense.
So where should the line be drawn?
Is it OK to treat someone differently online than you would face-to-face?
What are your rights as a blogger and as a commenter?
And has HTT ever gotten too heated for you?
p.s. Wish I'd had this article when we talked about guns.
7.01.2008
HTT - HTT Edition
Posted by Mrs. Dub at 6:42 AM
29 comments Leave a witty comment hereLabels: blogging, etiquette, Hot Topic Tuesday, HTT
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29 comments:
ooooh, good one. my lil' blog never gets heated b/c it's not intelligent enough to. when i put a "yay obama!" post up, i just received fewer comments... most of the time, though, i just ramble on and on about... hmm, what is it about?
so, that said, i'm pretty lucky.
back to your topic though -- no way, you should always treat ppl the same. in person/online, it doesn't matter. i don't mind if things get heated, but it shouldn't get personal. r-e-s-p-e-c-t, find out what it means to me.
you know my feelings about anonymous. :) i think in cases where people are sharing very personal experiences that's one thing, but to hide their identity so they can go on a rampage without repercussions... not a fan of that. i wholeheartedly believe that a blog is not the place to take the gloves off. we're all adults. we've most likely all learned about effective communication at some point. we all know that we should be kind and that there are mature ways to discuss our opinions, and then there are childish ways to express our opinions. AND we should all recognize that our views are limited, that there's a chance we could be wrong, and that there's so many different angles to the same issue that we should be open to considering. i think it's so fun to hear other people's opinions. like you, i've had my opinions changed, or at least altered, on a number of issues. i think you're a brave woman to throw your opinions out to the blogosphere. but i personally think that as readers, we should all recognize your soft-heart and follow suit. everyone who comments should be considerate enough to take the same care and concern as you do with their comments. and, i've learned in recent years that the happiest approach to laugh is to give people the benefit of the doubt. most people genuinely want to make friends, not enemies.
hmmm... "the happiest approach to LIFE is to give people the benefit of the doubt." ... and to laugh... but that's not what i meant to say. :)
I firmly believe that all good blogging etiquette should involve pictures of Miss Dub.
I completely agree with you on this one. I never intend to write "preachy" comments; but, unfortunately, I often click "publish" and then wish I could change a word or two.
Anonymous upsets me too. Last night I was perusing the web trying to find out, should I paint and then carpet or carpet and then paint? I found some great information on Yahoo Questions. But the third (anonymous) response was "Are you stupid? Of course you paint first. You must be an idiot to have to ask that question!"
Who has so much free time that they can wonder around on the internet and say mean things? And, more importantly, what good does it do you to chastise those who are fans (or hosts) of your favorite blogs. Let's all love Mrs. Dub (via respectful debate, of course) so she continues to keep us entertained!
This is why typing is hard at times. I don't leave many comments on your blog (even though I read daily, I love it!) But I feel that I should apologize if any of my comments have come across as rude to another person or to you. I certainly didn't have that "rudeness" in my mind as I typed. When I type, I'm quite calm, but voice inflections can not be put across in typed words. So the same words that can be said calmly or even lovingly, when read by someone else can seem rude and harsh.
Notwithstanding direct personal attacks, I try to take what people are saying as them just expressing their opinion. I do think it is easier to "hide" behind the mask of your computer, but people are people no matter how you interact with them or who they are. We should all give each other common respect. The good ole' golden rule thing.
Thank you so much for your posts and your willingness to put yourself out there.
I love a good debate and I love seeing both sides from people that are well versed on the subject. I too have had my mind opened and my opinion changed/altered from HTT on several occasions. So, for me, it doesn't bother me when people get "preachy", I applaud you for being educated and passionate on the different subjects!
That being said, it should never get PERSONAL. It is okay to disagree with someones opinion, but when you start attacking the other persons character (especially when it comes to your kids, there is nothing more precious to a person than that!) it is going overboard. We are all adults, so we should BE adults whether it is in person or on the net. Getting that upset is childish and in my opinion is the equivalent to my 3 year old getting mad when someone butts in front of him in line at the park and he calls them a poopy head! Although I think we've all dealt with plenty of "poopy heads" in our life and would likr to TELL them so! :) I really don't think most people get personal on purpose, however. I think most of the time it is a heated subject and those involved get heated. We should all evaluate what we type before we post it! Read it and evaluate what it would sound like to other people who can't hear what it sounds like in your own head!
I don't blog and read other people blogs because my life depends on it. It is for entertainment value only! So lets keep it like that... ENTERTAINING. And if berating other people is your form of entertainment, turn on Jerry Springer instead! (is he still on?!)
Just my opinion!
To your question on whether I was ever offened, yes. Your HTT on sahm vs working moms brought me to tears. TEARS. As a working mom, I couldn't believe some SAHMs would attack me just because they're safe behind a computer screen and keyboard. I would love to have someone tell me I'm selfish and a bad mom to my face.
The truth is, they never would! The sad thing about our virtual world in 2008 is that people become the worst versions of themselves. We show NO respect and no regard to feelings. We attack, throwing hateful hurtful words into cyberspace and then go on our merry way, not realizing we've left damaged egos and real emotions in our violent wake of words.
I am a huge fan of HTT and love the chance to express my opinions, but am stunned that the world is so dang black and white to bloggers.
I don't think we should say anything in the virtual world that we wouldn't have the balls to stay in the real world.
And because I would say this in the real world...Anonymous is a bitch! I hate that girl!
I agree with what Jennifer said about the golden rule. And what Sarah said about personal attacks. Did someone seriously question your mothering skills? Them's fightin' words!! I have learned a lot from HTT, honestly... some of these discussions have really opened my eyes to what other people think/feel about things and it has been good for me to read others' perspectives. With some issues, I knew there was a debate out there but with other things, I had no idea that some people (particularly of our faith) had such polar-opposite views. It has been fascinating, really.
As to the question "Is it OK to treat someone differently online than you would face-to-face?" I don't know if it is okay or not but that fact will never change, just like you would say something different on the phone or email than you would in person. I'm afraid that's just a fact of life - but people really should behave civally at the very least.
I think it's really great when people stand their ground and actually have and state their opinion in comments. BUT to be rude and keep themselves anonymous is just cowardly. A blog should be a place to share ideas and not a place to beat people up with word fights. As you said, words really can hurt a person. "Mean people suck!"
I seem to be the rare non-mormon on many of these blogs (connected by my best friend, who IS mormon), and I always worry that I come across as rude or mean completely unintentionally. Having a different religious view (or non at all in my case) seems to make me the "extremest" on many blogs, but I still love healthy debate with people who are very different than myself. I never hide behind anonymity, but I always hope that people know I am a good person, even if my opinions on the world differ.
it's ok to disagree with someone, but it's not ok to be mean about it.
i wish htt didn't give you ulcers. i would have stopped it long ago. you are a better woman (and blogger) than i.
i love the htt but don't always follow the comments. when i have read the comments, it seems like people try to be politely p.o.'ed. and if things get crazy, your tamer comments help keep the convo on course. (good job to you!)
the comments of the blogging world in general seem to mirror societal norms: you'll always hear from angry people with a bone to pick, and you'll hear less from people who are nice and normal. your blog, tho, is usually filled with smart comments from smart women (and men)who have opinions on both sides of the fence and i always gain insight from reading many sides of an argument.
you do a great job at leading such discussion, mrs. dub!!
I love HTT! i hope you keep it up!
one thing that i have noticed lately in the blog world (and it drives me crazy), is people leaving mean comments just to be hateful to the author. to tell them they dont like their blog, how they think, how they do things, who they are as a person....WELL THEN DONT WASTE YOUR TIME READING A BLOG YOU HATE! ok im calm now :)
i have never seen this on your blog, your readers seem to be really good people.
Don't you think that blogs give us a voice we might not otherwise have? Here we all get to voice an opinion...in person that isn't always possible when talking with strangers. I don't usually strike up a debate with someone about home-schooling in the line at Target. And if I did, I probably wouldn't say EVERYTHING I wanted to say...but online gives me the opportunity to say it and put honesty out there that isn't always comfortable face to face.
I value honesty and enjoy reading honest opinions...even if they disagree with me completely. I learn a lot that way. I've changed my mind a lot when walls come down and honest opinions flow.
For example, if someone gives their honest opinion and you can see flaws in it and point them out, you can open that person's mind to a completely different way of seeing issues.
And on the topic of honesty...I've never once said something online that I wouldn't say in person to someone face-to-face. If you don't believe me, than I can assure you that you don't know me very well. =)
I usually say more AT the computer than ON the computer. What bothers me are the people who CAN'T say something in person, but blast their innermost dark feelings online...usually under the guise of "anonymous". These are those passive-aggressive "freinemy" types that drive me nuts. They act very sweet and nice in person, but flip out at the slightest disagreement online.
Okay, I think I'm venting.
Strong emotion don't have to be insulting, but I think a lot of people take it that way.
Please don't let the HTT give you ulcers. If people don't play nice, you have the power to delete rudeness or to just let 2 people go at it and remove yourself from their issues. I, for one, can take care of myself...and I'm sure others can too and you don't have to feel personally responsible for hurt feelings or words exchanged. Just because you invite the topic doesn't mean you are responsible for hurt feelings.
You are doing a good thing. Really. We all have the power to turn off the computer, stop coming or learning better ways of articulating our feelings. There are many choices.
(holy crap. sorry bout the novel.)
I went private on my blog because my OWN sister was leaving rude comments. I fully admit that I am "over-the-top" with details and what I blog about, but the fact is that it's true and it's my life.
My blog is very much a day-in-and-day-out type of blog. It's everything-- my family journal.
I like opinions and it's okay to disagree, but I don't understand why people have to be rude. I like it when I blog about something and someone tells me about what their own child did or where their family went, etc. I don't expect anyone to say.. oh you're so cool and your kids are so cute...
Also, if someone has a problem with a certain blog-- DON'T READ IT! Right?
All opinions are welcome, BUT do not attack someone.
The key is to remember that there is more than one way to take something or to write something. Explore all possible scenarios. Don't assume that person only means something one way.
Like I said, I'm an overboard mom and I blog about all of our crazy times- but that's just me, it doesn't make me a bad person (like my sister said and was leaving rude comments). We all have our own bloggy style...
Well according to my sis “only hags leave mean anonymous comments.” But truly I never thought much about anonymous comments until I received a pretty lame one last week. Now I’m against them…for all the reasons stated above.
There are a lot of times that I type a comment and then never submit it. I either feel no need to add my opinion because I feel it comes across as as preachy or could be percieved as even remotely putting someone down in a conversation.
But then I pause a lot in real life before commenting to see if I really feel I should say something or if I want to talk just to hear myself talk.
And I agree - comments have no need to be anonymous. If you have an opinion - have the courage to own up to it.
Great topic btw.
I have never personally had a nasty comment written on my blog (knock on wood), because, well, I don't think a TON of people read it, and I don't usually post about controversial things because, honestly, I'm not that brave!
I like the HTT, sometimes I don't comment because I don't know much about the topic and don't think I could make an informed comment... But, I try. And, I try to be sensitive to others.
People can get bratty in the virtual world and I think a lot of is the case of "you can't see me, I can't see you, ha ha" or whatever, which, can be dangerous. It can be hurtful. If you don't personally know someone (and, even, in some cases, when you do), I don't think anyone has the right to criticize them, etc.
That said, I think that there should be blog manners--and that we should all do our very best to not say something online that we wouldn't say in person. And if we so chose to cross that line, to be prepared to back it up.
I certainly have always tried to do this, and, I hope I can continue...I understand that no one is perfect and sometimes somethin' gets the best of a person, but, generally speaking, I don't think the bloggie world should be a place for a grown up sandbox fight.
Hopefully. :)
I would like to nominate either Mrs. Dub or her sister La Dolce Vespa to write a set of official blog rules. Either one of you would do a great job of it!
Here, here. (Let's face it, I just like to read stuff they write.)
Wowzer. I'm still getting in trouble for my, admittedly, very strongly-worded but NOT (in my opinion) mean comments on the SAHM HTT!
So I'll try to apologize one more time:
Dear Cichelli,
I never called you a bad mom. (But boy did I ever get called a lot of bad names from lots of people for expressing my honest opinion.)
Also, If I met you in person and we were discussing it, I WOULD say (to your face) that I think it's better for KIDS to have stay-at-home moms. (With some exceptions, like I said before.)
Oh, and I thought I WAS showing respect and regard for your feelings when I sent you a heart-felt apology!
Sincerely,
Emily
Dear Laura,
Thank you THANK YOU for offering this forum for discussion. I too have had my views changed (or strengthened) through these discussions! I think it's important for us to not get too complacent in our opinions and be open to new ideas. Sorry for being one of the ones to bring contention to the table! I'll try to tone it down in the future!
Sincerely,
You-know-who
P.S. I heard the other day that swimming pools cause far more accidental deaths than guns.
Debate on!
;)
According to National Vital Statistics, firearm deaths dwarf drownings (28,000 to 3,800 in 2002), but drownings heavily outnumber accidental discharge of firearm deaths (3,800 to 800 in 2002). The real killer in terms of accidental death is cars (43,000 in 2002). But suicide by drowning or automobile lags pretty far behind suicide by firearm--and suicide was the focus of the cited article. Drowings are much higher for children under 5 and accidental gun deaths much higher for children 10 and over, increasing geometrically through the mid-20's, and presenting a particular suicide risk for teens, young adults, and the elderly.
Love your hot topics, they really make me think. I am always on the fence with issues--I can usually see both sides, which I suppose is a blessing, but sometimes I really wish I was more opinionated.
I think in terms of comments on blogs, emails, etc it is just so easy to misinterpret the words when there is no other means of communication going on. Words alone, for people other than great writers like you, leave so much to interpretation, or misinterpretation.
But can we talk about texting? For my birthday, my three brothers and one sister in law texted my happy birthday wishes. And then I got a text when my bro and his wife were doing their will: "Are you okay with taking our girls if anything happens to us?" What? I like texting but it is not a substitute for some conversations that should happen!
believe it or not, i am actually much nicer online than in person...and whittier too. miss ya
Mrs. Dub,
Your dad rocks. Can't argue with that!
Oh sorry acte, you're right, you didn't call me a "bad mom" -- the terms you used to describe working moms were selfish and self-indulgent (yes, I went back to fact check your original post). I would just be surprised if you would really say that to someone's face. If you would, I choose not to be friends with you in the virtual or the real world.
I appreciate heartfelt apologies but I honestly didn't receive one. And I'm really over it. My comment this go around wasn't directed at you -- I was just responding to Dub's HTT question if I had ever been offended. It was fair for me to answer, right?
Agree to disagree? And to never post about it on this blog again?
I do not believe people have a right to treat others differently online than they would in person. That's lame.
That being said, I keep waiting for a HOTter HTT. Or at least waiting to hear you state your side of the debate more aggressively. I'm sure that's just because I'm a very opinionated person though. My family members are always emailing me to tell me to change stuff I said on MY blog because it's too brazen. Oh well.
And yeah, I totally saw that gun suicides article. I'd never thought about that before (I'm actually in favor of keeping a gun at home... placebo effect I'm sure)but the statistic totally doesn't surprise me.
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