Question: Whose blog is this?
Answer: Mine ... which means that I can totally renege on my deal without being duplicitous. In fact, I can call my blogging twist a literary device. So despite what I promised yesterday, I’m not going to use all your suggestions to help me write my blog this week ... because so many of you sent me such fabulous suggestions that I can’t force myself to address them all in one pithy week. Instead, I’m going to drag them out until they die a slow, painful, but interesting death. Or until I’m sick of using them. ‘Cause it’s my blog and all.
And in another twist, today’s Hot Topic comes from a “reader” suggestion posed to me over chili last night. (Did I mention it was served in sourdough bread bowls? Had she asked me to blog on synthetic fibers I would have obliged.)
And the topic is this: Slumber parties: Good idea or bad idea?
Now, I must say that this reader/friend in question has basically made a decision to not allow her daughter to attend slumber parties in the future. Partly because we live in a crazy world where sometimes seemingly good people can do terrible things. Partly because you just don’t know what goes on when someone else is supervising your children.
I used to think anti-slumber party people were crazy or super strict. After all, I spent half of my teenage life on Mrs. Jay’s floor. (I always said that I preferred to sleep on the ground, lest you think she was cruel. I’m slightly compulsive about making other people happy.) Our sleepovers were a highlight of my youth and the source of many great adventures that will one day be shared here.
However, I’ve since realized that not everyone is lucky enough to go to Mrs. Jay’s house, where 3 a.m. showings of “Gidget” were as crazy as it got. After all, teens and slumber parties can sometimes be a reckless combination. And even if you trust the family hosting the event, baaaaad things have happened at slumber parties involving adults and children. (I know because I covered these kinds of court cases when I was a reporter in
Plus, who hasn’t had a weird sleepover experience? In second grade I went to a friend’s slumber party, where her parents had rented “Nightmare on
And I’m sure you all could share a similar story. (And I hope you do!)
I did suggest to my friend that you only allow your kids to sleepover at homes you’ve visited with parents you know well. But she made a good point that you don’t ever want to create a friendship hierarchy where certain friends are allotted more privileges than others, especially if it has little to do with them and more to do with their parents. As a result, she plans to create a general rule.
But will I? I honestly don’t know. I typically hate rules that alienate kids from their peers, or that can be misconstrued as “Mormons don’t trust others.” And I worry about overprotecting children as much as I worry about protecting them. But when you’re talking about issues like child endangerment maybe it’s better to be safe than sorry?
And is it OK to not let them attend other people’s sleepovers but to happily sponsor them at my house? ‘Cause that sounds good in theory but probably a little judgmental in reality.
What about you? Have you thought about this Hot Topic much?
Will you or won’t you let your kids attend sleepovers?
If yes, how will you make sure they’re safe?
We’re listening.
35 comments:
I grew up in a house where sleeping over wasn't allowed. I survived and so will my kids. The ever-common phrase given to me when I did complain about the situation was:
"Nothing good ever comes from a sleepover."
I'm all about letting them go and picking them up at 11 or 12. Whenever the chaperone's "bedtime" has been established for the party. My oldest is 5, I'm not looking forward to this one.
Interesting. Your friend makes a good point about not establishing a hierarchy of friends by allowing some sleepovers and forbidding others. Hmmmm?? My husband and I have actually talked about this at length and don't plan to allow our kids to do sleepovers. When they're little it poses such a risk for sexual violation, and when they're older, it seems like sleepovers tend to happen at the most lenient parents' house and the limits are pushed, if not overstepped. I know we'll be unpopular for that rule (and it even seems a little rigid to me, and makes me kind of sad, 'cause I had some really fun spendovers,) but I don't think much good comes from most sleepovers. Hopefully we'll be good enough friends with our kids that they won't think we're total lame-heads for that imposition. Looking forward to reading other thoughts about this.
I haven't thought much about this one. I went to a few school friends' sleepovers in elementary school, then after that it was all church friends. I always heard stories about crazy stuff happening but the biggest thing I ever did was tepee a house! Kinda lame-o (we thought we were hot stuff). I agree with knowing the parents (although looking back my parents didn't know many of my friends' parents). Hmmmm. Maybe my general rule will be that if I don't know them they can't stay the night, just stay late. That'll be a good topic to talk with the hubby tonight. I'm sure he'll be excited!
we talk about this one a lot because our 6-year-old girl asks every so often if her best friend can sleep over. so far, it hasn't happened. we think she's too young and worry that her friend might freak out being away from home, etc. I had a few weird experiences at sleepovers (playing bloody mary, making people go teetee in their sleep, tping) all things that i don't think my kids need to experience.
friends of ours have about the strictest rule i've ever heard relating to this topic, and at first i thought they were crazy, but i see their point more and more as time passes.
they don't allow their children (they have mostly girls) to be in a home without them when a man is present. in other words, they'll only allow their kids to come over if it's during the day and my husband is not home. my friend's sisters were molested as children by a trusted family friend, and so the rule was imposed to protect their kids. not a bad idea, but it sure doesn't allow for many date nights!
we haven't ruled out sleepovers altogether, but we also haven't been to any yet. i'm all for the 1130pm pickup time, but that even seems risky if you're completely paranoid.
great topic, mrs dub! it's a hot one around here.
I was allowed to sleepover at friend's houses until 8th grade, when I went to a sleepover birthday party at an LDS home and the parent's turned on "Single White Female" to watch. Yes, R-rated. Another LDS girl and I went to a different room and didn't watch the movie. We did the stand up thing, told our parents what had happened, and then my parents decided no more sleepovers. I was crushed! Jacque, the birthday girl, had just ruined my life!
Looking back, it was a very good thing that the sleepovers stopped. I got into enough trouble without them! :)
As far as what I will allow my 3 girls to do, I am totally okay with them having sleepovers with good friends that I know well during elementary school. Right now my almost 6-year-old thinks having friend/cousin sleepover is just about the greatest thing ever. And I'll allow it for a few more years while it is still innocent.
I grew up going to sleepovers at pratically every birthday party until I was 12... It was fun... but sometimes crazy things happened- like in fourth grade planning to steal the parents cigarrettes and alcohol and 'experimenting' - for some reason they tried to wake me for the 'experiment'- but they said- I wouldn't wake up...phew!
I seriously never thought about this one until I moved to Utah... and discovered that about every fourth person had this rule. At first I was perplexed- then when I began to think of my own sleepover history it became clear why this is something that I wanted to do in my own family and luckily my oldest was 2 at the time- and I could start fresh with him and it could be a tradition in our family. We do lateovers- and the great thing about lateovers- is a parent is always around to supervise (hopefully!)
Also- I just heard recently that older siblings can be a concern- with all the crap that is flying around- we have to protect our kids!
I was the same way...WHAT? No sleepovers! That's crazy!
And now? I'm not such a fan. I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's too scary to think about. I'm just going to read everyone else's experiences and try to stew about it more.
I am a late-over fan.
I have great memories as a child from countless sleepovers, but unfortunately, we live in a different place (utah) where creepy things are happening all around during the daylight hours! My kids 6 & 4, already know that they will not be able to sleepover at their friends' or even cousins' houses (without a parent). We set this rule just so there is no question across the board, as you suggest, not to create the "hierarchy" of friends/family. I am pretty paranoid though. Something sexual in nature being forced upon my children is my biggest fear.
We didn't really have sleepovers at our house (mainly because mom didn't want other kids in the house) but we did sleepover at other people's houses frequently. I don't have any bad stories though =/ I remember one sleepover we had, we stayed up all night and cleaned their house and had breakfast made for the parents when they woke up! It was a lot of fun, lol.
Today's world, unfortunately, just isn't the same as it was when we were growing up :( I'm not a mom yet... but I'm sure I'll be hesitant on that later! Great HTT Mrs. Dub! :)
I'm pleasantly surprised to see that I am not the only Mom that thinks sleepovers are a bad idea. I slept over at friend's homes all the time. In my teens, my best friend and I slept over at each other's homes practically every weekend. Nothing bad ever happened to me.
And yet.... I don't want my kid's sleeping over at another's home without my supervision. I'm even freakish about allowing my children to play over at friend's houses. It can get comical when another Mom feels the same way I do and we are both playing tug-of-war with "Oh, no, I don't mind if they play over here, REALLY..."
I had a nephew that was sexually abused by a trusted family member on his mother's side (not our family...) I trust no one. My belief is that my children will be less harmed by a no-sleepover rule than by possibly being abused in some manner (like...Nightmare on Elm Street for 7 year olds!? Yikes!)
Even at church they are putting peep holes in all the doors and when my husband was called to teach Primary...I was asked to sit in on the classes. I don't feel like they don't trust men, their policy seems to be "better safe than sorry".
My motto is "Trust is God, but tie up your horse!" It's from a longer story, but basically you can ask God for safety for your family, but you need to do your part to ensure that safety.
i was that person that was stirring up trouble at sleep overs. even the aftermath of one "lateover" almost got my house burned down in 8th grade. it wasn't pretty. cops, fire trucks, formal investigations, juvie, and years of harassment ensued. "luckily" i was on the receiving end and none of that really touched me. it was a wake-up call.
but i was an angel compared to what my hubby and his buddies were doing--even some of which was done during the day. (cue ominous music.)
in my in-laws stake in northern california, the stake presidency has publicly advised against it.
while there were plenty of sleepovers and lateovers that were harmless, the only ones i remember are the ones that weren't so. things that i cringe at. things that make me sick to my stomach. things that happened in LDS homes with LDS kids. things that took me years to get over. things that i don't really want my babies to experience.
i feel you, mrs. dub, about being against those certain kinds of rules that may cause more trouble and rebellion in the end. i don't know. but since tyson can't even roll over yet, i think we have some time to figure this one out.
My husband and I have talked about this and there will be no sleeping over at others homes until it is family (we are lucky to have lots of cousins that are nearly the same age). Our daughter, even though she is only 2, tends to be closest with our own closest friends children. We will allow our closest friends children to stay in our home.
I also have a friend who does the "no going to friends' homes that have males home" rule. Her 2 girls are deathly afraid of men. It's sad and scary. I don't want my children to associate men with being scary.
Even though my oldest is ten, we haven't really had to deal with this much yet -- maybe because I have boys? Is having a sleepover more of a girl thing? Around here (Salt Lake City) they don't seem to be very popular, and I think a lot of the parents I know are in agreement that they're not a great idea.
I grew up in a home where sleepovers were definitely discouraged, but I was allowed to go on a "case by case" basis. I don't know if I agree that this creates a hierarchy -- instead, it tells your kids that you make judgments based on all of the information, not just a hard-and-fast rule. I don't think I had one horrifying experience, which tells me my mom's judgment was pretty good (or maybe that I was just lucky).
Mrs. R mentioned bad things happening even at "late-overs." I have heard of kids staying late as a sleepover alternative, and I think it would be better than all night. Ultimately, do I trust the parents to actually supervise the children? Bad things can happen during the day too.
I don't know if I'll be too interested in hosting sleepovers. I've hosted a couple for Young Women that were pretty exhausting (for me -- they loved them, of course). Wouldn't it be better just to have fun, then go home to everyone's own bed? Who invented this silly concept anyway?
My DH and I have talked about this one and decided that we've got a "cousins only" policy. Not only do I want to keep my children safe, I want to protect my DH from false accusations. Those kinds of horror stories scare me just as much as the child abuse ones.
What a great topic. I have lots of thoughts on this issue.
First, I want to say that you must do what you think is best for your children. I tend to distrust people, but I also never want to make my children afraid of good people.
For me, I think it will be a case-by-case decision. I don't care if I create a hierarchy. If I don't feel comfortable with my children staying somewhere, they won't be staying there. Some of those kids would certainly be welcome in my home. I agree with Liz that teaching your children about good judgment is incredibly important.
I think there is a difference between letting your child of 6 - an age when they are not prepared to protect themselves - and letting your child of 16 stay over night.
And so, I do think I will allow SELECT sleepovers and CERTAIN times.
This is a fantastic HTT. I was allowed to have sleepovers at my house, and go to sleepovers at others as long as my parents said it was okay. This quickly changed though, as I would come home from these sleep over's grumpy, and unwilling to help (as the momma recounts). I think that kids have a bed for a reason. They are supposed to sleep in it! I think that my babies will be best protected under my roof, and that I will roll with the rebellion when that times comes. It sounds like most parents are erring on the side of caution, and that makes me feel a little more at peace my kids won't be the only ones with crazy mean parents! (haa haa)
Seems like we are all pretty much in agreement. I have a 10 year old girl and a 7 year old girl and our rule has always been "cousins only." So far here in Kaysville, Utah we have never been met with any hostility (nor did we have any issues with this rule in our old home town of Irvine, California). Most folks agree. We are all about the "late night" party. And I enjoy it most when it is at my house!
Sometimes I feel like we as a society (especially a Mormon society) care too much about hurting other's feelings. There are a few homes in our neighborhood with older/younger kids that have no supervision and in which my kids are not allowed to even step foot. I have coached them on how to "kindly and politely" not enter the door, but when it comes down to it, if their feelings get hurt, so be it. My kids and their safety come first.
I agree with my sister Jamie. Luckily our kids have cousins near by and I have no problem with sleepovers amongst the cousins. My kids already know that the boys and girls don't share bedrooms; boy cousins only sleep in my son's room & girl cousins sleep in my daughters' rooms. So far my kids haven't been invited to "non-family" sleepovers but I would be fine if it's a family I know very well. I think it is fine to say "no" to some friends (pick them up before bedtime) and "yes" to others. Who cares about heirarchy; you're either comfortable with the family or you're not; no use depriving your kids of ALL sleepovers altogether and have a blanket policy (no pun intended) just for the sake of being fair.
there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, listening to the spirit. in this life anything can happen. i think it is okay to have some blanket rules on the table, but i also think it is good to use the spirit as a guide. while i plan on the cousins and super close friends rule, i also plan on feeling it out on a case by case basis. i feel good about all my family, but what if i get a bad feeling that it just isn't the right night. i also think back to all the fun sleepovers with mrs. dub. they didn't have any cousins in town to have a sleepover with. mrs. dub and her family became just like family to me, and my parents trusted them perfectly. anyways, who knows, we all just need to do our best to protect our kids.
Ugh, the pain of this issue as a parent. Especially when they are teenagers.
And I've told my husband this a million times- I think it's weird for boys to want to have sleepovers. So, it's already been decided that the rule in our house for our little boys will be no sleepovers.
But we have older kids that have grown up having sleep overs. And when they were little kids, it seemed pretty harmless since we trusted the friends, and parents, and houses they were staying at.
But now- as teenagers- it's hard to trust the friends and the houses, because you don't know who else is invited that could potentially bring the porn, or the rated r movie, or have the boyfriend that wants to sneak in- or help them sneak out...
I am a highly suspicious mom with little trust in teenagers- in general. Luckily, we have early morning soccer games and volleyball tournaments that keep us from being the bad guys. Instead of saying "no" to the sleepover, it's "you have an early game"... but we only have another month to use that excuse...
you are having some good hot topics lately! I love it!
nothing like a little stirring of the pot for HTT...
i have to say... as concerned as i am about the dangers that lurke at other people's homes... i don't think i am going to have a hard fast rule against sleepovers. *gasp* :) i grew up in a home where the primary focus was on making the right decision. knowing when it was time to leave. listening to the voice inside (the spirit, if you will) that tells you when something is just not right, and comforts you when everything is AOK. i always knew that my parents were a phone call away, and there were times when i did call and they did come get me. i always knew that my parents were my advocates and that they trusted me to make the right decisions. occasionally, i got a phone call from my mom or dad saying, "i don't know why... but i feel like you need to come home." and they would come and get me. and as irritated as i was in the moment, i got over it and it was replaced with an appreciation for my parents loving concern. but they trusted me. they taught me about good touching and bad touching. they taught me about what to do if something bad happens. they armed me with skills and courage to handle situations that might come up. i don't want to overstate something that's really very simple, but i honestly feel like those experiences prepared me for life.
ALSO, we had more sleepovers at our home than i can even count. we had sleepovers with one friend, sleepovers with many friends.... when i was a teenager, we often had stake activities that required kids to travel from long distances and sometimes we had upwards of 20+ kids in our home. boys and girls. the boys slept downstairs, the girls slept upstairs and my dad slept ON the stairs. and we had similar experiences at other people's homes. all of whom my parents were friends with. i think there's a way to do it and keep your kids safe from harm. not to say that they won't FACE harm... but you can teach your kids how to avoid harm... or kick it between the legs if need be. AND, to be honest, limiting sleepovers to just cousins is definitely not going to prevent your children from dealing with potentially difficult situations. boys still want to kiss girls... cousins or not. and even within your family, i assure you that there are different parenting styles. just something to keep in mind.
so... i will 100% totally respect anyone who decides not to have sleepovers or allow their kids to attend sleepovers, but i am not convinced that i will have that rule in my house. and i don't agree that nothing good ever came from sleepovers. i think that the greatest friendships i have in life were solidified by mid-night chats and 2 AM crying sessions. i LOVED sleepovers and sleeping head to toe with 3+ girls jammed into a twin bed. those were truly some of my favorite memories from my youth. and a little TPing never hurt anyone.
and can someone teach me how to say what i want to say in half as many words, please?! :)
There were very few weekends of my growing up that I did not have a sleepover. I loved them and had so many great girlfriends to play with. That is why it makes me so sad to think that my little girl will probably not get to have those fun sleepover experiences. However, the world is a different place and my child's safety if more important. I agree with what others have said and will maybe allow staying over until midnight or something.
But I think I will allow family sleepovers (I know I know, the molester is usually the uncle so family shouldn't make a difference). I have a lot of nieces and nephews and I think sleeping over with cousins will be my line that I draw so that Emery will have the sleepover experience without playing favorites with friends.
I have to agree with Hilari. I remember once dropping Mrs. Gee off at someone's home for a sleepover and feeling very uneasy ... but not following through on those instincts. At about 9 the phone rang and I turned to PDaddy and said, "It's Mrs. Gee, and she wants us to pick her up." I was right. It was nothing huge (an R-rated movie she refused to watch) but I could have saved her alot of anxiety if I had listened to the spirit.
Uh ... we didn't actually call her "Mrs. Gee" then. I wonder what she would have thought about that?
My mom never let me sleep over but she would let me go, hang out, and then pick me up around 11 pm. It worked ok and I will probably do the same thing for my kids because the later it gets the worse it gets.
My mom made 1 exception and allowed me to sleep over at her best friend of 30+years house. It was that night that I was introduced to "light as a feather stiff as a board" and other potentially satanistic games. That proves that exceptions dont work!
What about hosting the sleepovers?
Lizzie: Light as a feather and stiff as a board is satanistic?
I don't agree with the age thing.. I remember plotting to sleep over when I was a teenager so that we could drink and be out all night... 16 year olds are capable of doing a lot of naughty things... And the slumber parties where we played 'Light as a feather stiff as a board' were probably my most innocent memories. Thanks for the insight, ladies. I guess I have learned that we need to depend more on the HG to help us make these decisions.
i have yet to worry about this subject but i always just assumed i would allow gracie to go to sleepovers.
i loved laughing all night long with my friends and having so much fun, i can't imagine why i wouldn't let gracie do that. i will cross that bridge when we come to it.
i had no idea what a hot topic this really was! it's good to understand where other moms are coming from when they won't allow them.
Wow, this is an issue I haven't even thought about. Maybe because I have boys? Maybe because I put my children in a complete stranger's care at the age of 6 weeks because I'm a working mom? I don't know, but this is a new HTT for me!
I agree with being careful, but I also think there's more good in this world than there is bad. Follow your gut instinct, watch for red flags, "listen to the spirit," whatever you want to call it. I just hope I never deprive my children of a carefree childhood because I'm over protective. I mean if the librarian or a teacher wants them to spend the night, I might think twice. Otherwise, I don't know that I'm quite as paranoid...
But then again, I don't have daughters.
I grew up in a home where sleep over's not allowed, except with family (which my parents later out an end to, I'll explain).
I remember one my best friends had a sleep over for every birthday and I never stayed. I was fine with that and my parents would come pick me up after the festivities had died down. My friend had an older brother, about 4-5 years older than us, and he always made fun of me because I didn't stay. As I got older I wondered about that and what his motives were. I am not saying that he would have done anything, but why did he care so much? It went on for years!
My Dad has put an end to even family sleep over's because in his calling he has seen too many things happen. One man told him (after his daughter was molested by a close family member) that not even his family could be trusted. He felt that the only way his children could truly be safe was at home with him. That certainly doesn't mean that they could no longer see family or friends, but he avoids putting them in situations where they could be unsafe.
My parents always said "you might know your friends, but you don't know who your friends know."
Words to live by, at least in our house.
I have a late thought - another concern today, is that men cannot be too careful, meaning your husband. Even very innocent behavior, like taking babysitters home, etc. is being construed and misused by some girls. Am I saying this right? Anyways, think of how a wrong accusation about a misconduct on your husband's part would adversely effect your life. It's happening people (I know of two instances where both men have been accused, tried, and the accusations have been completely unfounded). Our very innocent dh's cannot be too careful. Also, remember older brothers too. I totally jive with Janaya's thoughts, and those that mentioned the spirit. Very, very great lessons.
Mrs. Dub, you made my day that you commented on my blog. Thanks!
Wow, I don't even have kids and yet this topic is fascinating.
I think Angy hit the nail on the head--times have just changed since most of us were of sleepover age. Sexual abuse of children has become such a nationwide hot topic that I think sleepovers are rapidly going out of style in the LDS and non-LDS communities alike.
I had experiences similar to all of you -- R-rated movies shown to children and kids experimenting with smoking and drinking, etc. However, I think my parents would be surprised which sleepovers these things happened at. I had a lot of nonLDS friends growing up, but their parents kept a close eye on us. By contrast, I had some LDS friends with seriously dysfunctional families and parents who could care less what we were up to (none of whom comment on this blog). Just by nature of their church connections, my parents were better friends with the LDS parents. They probably felt safer when I was at those homes, but they shouldn't have.
If I ever have kids, I think sleepovers will be prohibited for the little ones and teenagers alike. In the cell phone age, it is simply too easy for kids to pretend they are in one location when they are really in another. I realize that if they want to get into trouble, they will find a way to do it no matter what; however, I think they'll have less time to do it if they're expected home by midnight.
I am a fan of the late-night parties.
I did have some sleepover horror stories. I was introduced to pornography at the age of 11 when a girl wanted to show me and another LDS friend what she found in her mom's drawer (not LDS friend and mom by the way). I also remember another slumber birthday party where one of the more "mature" girls snuck into my friends' older brother's room to see what would happen. Luckily nothing happened because the guy was a good mormon boy (she not a good mormon girl) and he kicked her out. Then there are of course the ouiji (sp?) boards, bad movies, etc.
I not only worry about kids sleeping over at friends' house but also having others' kids at my house. I have known a young man who was falsely accused of rape because he rebuffed a girl's advances who was spending the night with his sister (no, this is not the above mentioned case). I don't want to risk that on my sons or any family member.
My solution to it all is to raise my kids to be socially inept so that sleeping over will never be an option because of their lack of friends.
I think it a wise solution. . .
hey--great topic. i am a blog stalker and love stalking you, mrs. dubb. i am not creepy, i swear. anyway, i agree with all that has been said. i am LDS now but grew up a non-member and like many of you had sleepovers almost every weekend. while nothing terrible ever happened i did have my share of sleepless nights due to scary movies and "passing out" games. i have two young boys (ages 4 and 2)and a few months ago was thinking about all the camping trips my boys will probably be doing as they grow up in the scouting program and with a dad that loves the outdoors. i know we have all heard the bad stories about boys being molested on trips like these and that terrifies me. i think the camping trips for boys are the equivalent of slumber parties for girls. i decided that my boys will not go on any camping trips unless my husband goes as well. this will be a hard and fast rule so we don't have to even think about it. even if it is my husband's best friend taking them or an uncle or whatever---my husband will be there. he agreed that it was a good idea. just thought i would put the camping spin on the HTT.
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