8.14.2007

HTT - SAHM Edition



I’m in the mood for some comment loOove so I’ve been mulling over some possible Hot Topics that will generate a little energy.

The first thing that came to mind was labor stories – the natural kind and the enjoyable kind - but I worried that people would consider it an unofficial announcement so I nixed that idea. Which only left the working mother debate because that’s as hot as it gets among Mormon moms, and because well I can’t think for more than six minutes consecutively without stopping for a snack. And I’m trying not to graze as much these days.

But here’s where I must preface my thoughts, and it applies to a lot of other Hot Topics, as well – I’m a gray person. Even though I belong to a church that is very black and white on most moral issues, I sympathize with the fuzz in between, especially when it applies to others.

That said, I think the LDS Church has been pretty clear about mothers working outside of the home. Basically, a mom should stay home with her kids except when it’s financially impossible and all other options have been exhausted, such as working from home or finding better employment for the father.

Working to save for luxuries is not a good reason to leave children with others, we’ve been told. Working to avoid the stress and chaos of motherhood is not a good solution. Working outside the home, in general, isn’t as healthy for children as having a mother at home, and can have harmful repercussions if childcare isn’t adequate.

BUT – and it’s almost as big as my butt – like everything in life, I think this counsel is meant for everyone but with the understanding there will be EXCEPTIONS. There are single mothers who have no choice but to work. There are families in dire financial straights that require both parents to work endless hours. There are women whose sanity is literally dependent on spending time away from their children each day. There are women who feel called to be mothers and doctors … or any number of honorable professions.

It’s all about your motives, I think. If you feel strongly like you need to work for unselfish reasons then no one can argue with your decision. And, ultimately, it’s YOUR decision to make. Passing judgment can be foolish because we rarely know all the factors and personal inspiration that led someone to work or not.

In my case, I had a mother who stayed home during our childhood and most of our formative years. Raising four kids was her full-time job. Her constant example, her open availability to talk, her overseeing eye and discipline were priceless to us. I never doubted her love, never wished for more time with her or felt free to misbehave without her finding out. (Though I sometimes tried!)

That’s why I’ve chosen to stay home with Miss Dub. Even though an extra income could help us buy a house sooner or pay for more trips, we never even discussed the possibility. Our decision was made when we got married because we both understood the value of having a mother in the home. And I’m so glad because I can’t imagine missing a moment of Miss Dub’s infancy.

That doesn’t mean, however, that raising my children will be my sole pursuit. I am still a writer and do freelance work during nap time. I am still a friend and make time to get out by myself with others. I am still a wife and need an occasional date with my Mr. And I’m busy with other church, family and home obligations.

Most importantly, I am fulfilled. Even though it can be tiring, tedious and monotonous, I LoOoVe my job.

But I’m ME. YOU my have entirely different opinion or situation that has led you down another path. But we can both be good moms.

(Unless, of course, you have multiple live-in nannies. I take issue with that. Also, I was wondering if you would lend me $1 million dollars?)

But what do you think?

Are you a stay at home mom or a proud working mama? How did you make your decision?

Do you see this as a black and white issue, or is it a little bit gray?

Be nice.

46 comments:

Laurel said...

For me this was black and white until I became that mom who needed to get a job (which I should be doing right now). Luckily because of my experience I've been able to work part-time flexible hours from home.
When I knew we needed an extra income the option to work from home became the only option. The thought of leaving my little boy literally made me ill.
Now the issue is much less black and white. If I work a couple of extra hours I can save for Liam's birthday or I can put aside a little something to visit my sister or I can buy those cute pair of shoes I've had my eye on. I like the idea of having something to look forward to so sometimes I work a little bit harder to make sure I do. The truth is when I work harder I spend less time with my son and my husband, but I think that the time spent away makes me a better and more loving mom and wife.

Rachel said...

I am a stay-at-home mom and wouldn't have it any other way. I am pretty black & white on most issues and quite traditional too. Luckily, Dh has been able to provide what we need to stay live and be happy. We would love to buy a house sooner rather than later, but I would be so sad to miss the everyday-moments with my girls. I call Daddy everyday, it seems, with something funny or exciting to report. How sad if it was the nanny calling to report to me?

I do, of course, understand when it is necessary financially speaking. I do have a harder time when it is for Mom's sanity. I think that can come in other ways...a little mani-pedi goes a long way!! Even a solo trip to Target::))

stephanie said...

i remember telling my boss that i was pregnant with my first baby. the first thing she asked me was whether or not i would be returning to work after i had the baby. i thought she was crazy. why in the world would i leave my precious little baby to go to work, i wondered? at the time, mike was a student without a job. i was our sole income provider. after i quit to have mabel, i don't know how we survived, but we did. and it was so worth it!

mike and i never even talked about it. we both just assumed that i would stay home with the kids. we would have to be extremely desperate for me to get a job. i am a firm believer that children need their mothers at home everyday (and available-- you can be home with your kids but be on the computer and not paying attention to them).

but that doesn't mean i think working moms are bad moms (unless they are working to avoid their responsibilities at home, then i question their priorities). they have made a decision that works for them. it doesn't work for me, but that's ok.

so let's all just get along.

doezie10 said...

I was a single Mom when I had my first child, and so I had no choice but to work! I hated it!
I am now married, and I'm the Mother of four children (two are step) We make any sacrifice we have to, so that I don't have to work (outside of the home) I am so thankful I am ABLE to stay at home with my kids, I couldn't imagine not being here for them, or should I say for me- because really I benefit the most!

Rachie said...

If you are a working mom, you are a bad mother.

Just kidding! How is that for controversial?

I go the park and see kids with their nannies and I think: Why aren't their moms taking them to the park?

And then I remember that I have a nanny. I am one of those moms.

I have been thinking about this issue a lot. I finally concluded that working from home is the only option. I recently gave up a promotion because I don't want to have a career, just a little extra money.

I do, however, know that I will quit one day...

Leisha Mareth said...

Eh, I don't have really heated feelings on the issue. I stay at home and I believe that it is the best thing for the family as a whole. But I know there are exceptions. My Mom worked at various times throughout my childhood and I was fine and she scheduled it around my school schedule, etc.

Sometimes I do scratch my head about some women's choices because it seems a little self-centered and/or selfish, but only God can really judge their hearts and intentions.

The main issue I have with the working Mom set is when they say "My children are happiest, when I'm happy, and I'm happy working." I think that's a cop out of sorts. I may not be happy at home 24/7, in fact I'm often exhausted, worn-thin, worrying about how to handle certain "issues" with the kids or just plain bored with housework, laundry, playdates and giving baths. However, I know that in the midst of all the struggle and exhaustion I'm shaping my kids values and beliefs and views on the world in little ways throughout the day.

But being a stay at home Mom doesn't necessarily ensure that you do that. Some Moms plant their kids in front of the tv all day (I've noticed my kids absorb tv shows like sponges! It's scary!)or send their kids off to play at others homes without checking out what goes on at that home or any other number of things that may compromise the development of lessons and values kids need.

In the end this is what I truly think. We all need to give each other a break. The competition among women is annoying and ultimately tears down and separates a sisterhood that could be lifting and helping each other in whatever circumstance we find each other in! I think that the church is inspired in telling Moms to stay home, but would never want those Moms tearing down other Moms who don't. A close friend saw a church employed therapist who was a woman and a Mom and you know what? She was incredible and helped my friend SO much. I think that woman was inspired to be both a therapist and a Mom. There is no black and white.

Angy said...

Let me first state that I am NOT a mom... yet. However, I totally look forward when that day comes! And the thought of being a stay home mom would be amazing! But then I think about it longer... and realize that when I'm home for an extended period of time and not working... I go crazy! I can't be couped up at home all day.

While I would LOVE to see every second of my babies life, I think it would make me a better mom if I did work.

Now, as stated before, I'm NOT a mom, yet! And that thought could TOTALLY change when I have a little one but that's my thoughts now.

I give soooooo much credit to stay at home moms!!! Often, my thoughts are what do you do all day at home?? And I don't say that in a negative way AT ALL! I just think I'd go crazy at home all day lol.

To each their own :) Don't hate for an outside perspective ><

Kate said...

I am a atay-at-home mom... Luckily- I have been always able to be home- and my dh has been able to provide. Before we got married we discussed this and there was nothing more that I wanted than to one day be at home with my children (although it seems we are in the car quite alot!) We waited 3 years and saved all my income to be able to do so.

That being said- I believe strongly in education and knowing that if I had to I could provide for my family with confidence outside of the home. As we have been taught we should be prepared- and I feel that this is one of those preparations.

As for now-(not to say there are not hard days) I am very fulfilled in what I do- and the older my children get- the more I realize how fast it goes- and no matter the sacrifice- I choose and want to be at home.

I can't judge those mothers that have to or choose to work outside the home- that is not my right and I don't know their entire situation- but I do know I have seen mothers who sacrifice alot to be at home (one mother in my neighborhood had no car with three young boys and walked everywhere from the Post Office to the Grocery store, etc.) I hope that if my family were in the same position I would do the same.

LCM said...

My hubby and I rely on his income and have since we first became parents. I had the unique opportunity to see what it would be like to have to send my first dd off to daycare because of a horrible pregnancy with dd#2. It broke my heart. Then my hubby would refer to me as our insurance policy, I have a degree, I can work if something ever happened to him. This last year we have had to cash in the policy. DD#2 was diagnosed with non Hogdkins Lymphoma and I have spent at least 20 hours a week, more when she's hospitalized,just on her and I have never been more grateful not to have a working job. I can't imagine having to make the sacrifices to quit the job in order to nurse my baby. Just my two sense, it has been best for us. Not to say they don't make me crazy 90% of the day!

KKKTMSHELBY said...

i agree fully with everything said so far, and i am glad that we are all mature and nice and senstive about this topic ... just wanted to add, that i am a stay at home mom and a teacher! i consider myself both. i suppose since, i teach half time in a job-share position, with another young mom. she teaches mon/tues, i thurs/fri we alternate wed. so in reality i work 90-out-of-365 days.

i do it because i LOVE teaching. i don't do it for the money (though it is nice to have an extra income), i don't do it for my sanity (because seriously 25 3rd graders isn't any easier than 1 2 year old), but i do it because when i've prayed i know it is what i should do.

and i do it, because i have all family around on BOTH sides, that loving watch kalle and so far she's never had to spend a second in someones care i don't know (or am not related to).

and we do it because it works right now, our plan for when we have another child (and more) is to take an extended time off, until they are all in school. but right now it works, the grandmas enjoy their time with kalle.

this is just my personal experience, just thought i'd share to broaden the horizons.

Anonymous said...

Were you really hinting toward an unofficial announcement with that "grazing every 6 min" comment? Just wondering. My mother worked full time my entire life and still does. I love my mother and felt like she did a great job, but she really missed out on a lot. I won't go into details, but I was forgotten at track practice a couple times. Therefore, I am a stay at home mom and love it and I am grateful that my husband fully supports me in that. I am glad that I get to be a close part of my children's lives as they grow up.

ANN said...

I met the Dub’s while in grad school with the Mr. After15 months and a small-condo’s worth of debt, starting a career was the only action I was sure of. But, I too am a firm believer in gray.

My mother worked full-time until I was nine. I did miss her. I did want more time with her. But, I also had a WONDERFUL sitter with a big family, who adopted me as their own between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. They became extended family for holidays and events, and to this day, they are still such an important part of my life.

I know that every day she left for work, she struggled. Because she loved her job. She was great at it. But, she also loved her child most.

I think that I will want to be at home as much as I can. But, I also know that I will need to keep myself busy with something that is strictly selfish. I know that sounds… well… selfish. But, I also know myself. And, spending a few hours each day with stationery (or whatever I end up doing) will make me a better person (and mother).

janaya said...

so... as i've mentioned many times before, i don't have kids yet... though you all know i am working on that. as such, i've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years (and many years before that, i suppose) contemplating what it will be like to leave my career path and become a mom. that is my plan. though i've gone back and forth over the years about how excited i am about it. i got married at 26, so i had done the university thing and got my degree... i have had a number of years to work my way up the corporate ladder... i loved working. i loved the thrill of stress and responsibility. i loved being a head-strong woman who could put men twice her size and twice her age in their place. i loved knowing that the work i was doing was resulting in million dollar deals and company growth. and i say loved, because the longer it takes for children to come, the more willing i have become to give it all up. i KNOW the transition from an office to staying at home is a difficult one... i've already experienced that to a degree when i left my corporate job and started working for a virtual company. i have already realized that it's easy to get caught in the trap of starting your day without getting ready (and then realizing you won't get the chance to shower until late in the afternoon). i have realized that it's easy to get distracted (ie. mrs. dub's blog, facebook, more blogs, TV, more blogs). i have realized it's easy to get cabin-fever and to go days without going outside. i have realized that even when you're home all day, it's no easier to get dinner on the table. and i know that whether it's coworkers or kids demanding your attention, it's easy to lose yourself. and most days, i'm pretty convinced that i'm ready to make the transition from 50+ year old men demanding my time to 5 month old babies. but change is scary, and so is losing income that we've become so accustomed to living with... but we have been preparing to walk away from it. we have had a few extra years to prepare, but we both recognize that for us it is the sacrifice we need to make. i have to say, probably my biggest motivation are the memories of my mother. sitting on the steps, stroking my hair while i cried about how i had no friends at school. listening to me tell story after story as i plowed through the front door each day from school. being home to answer the phone when i just needed to hear her voice. taking an active role in my formal education and the system that was responsible to teach me. i know it's possible to have some of those experiences with a working mother and i have so much respect for those women who have to work and somehow manage to balance it all and who have to make the sacrifices that come with that decision. and i also have so much respect and admiration for those women who sacrifice careers and self-interests for those seemingly insignificant moments that a child will never forget. whatever the case, i love moms. moms who love their children and will do anything for them (whether that's providing the necessities of life by working in an office or by staying home). you're all such great examples!

janaya said...

again... holy crap! i clearly have no concept of length and my own ability to ramble on uncontrollably before i press "publish your comment". haha. sorry for the length.

Mandee said...

First of all, I have to tell Rachie that she is amazing for giving up that promotion! I can only imagine what it involved.

I worked for 3 months after I had my first baby. And during those 3 months, I worked from home and had a nanny (I called her a mothers helper) while I worked. And I quit that great job (and it was a great job- I LOVED it) because I couldn't handle having someone else enjoying my baby while I was working my much loved job. Even though that someone else was my sister-in-law!

I've struggled with this issue ever since. What I really wish is that I could be more like my sister-in-law, and Nie Nie- 2 women who LOVE to be at home, and make it look like so much fun. Because while I do have fun on a daily basis with my kids (at some point in the day) I don't enjoy the laundry, and the cleaning. And I so miss the conference calls, the selling, the adult conversation (especially when Rachie was just in the cubicle across from me), region meetings in Hawaii. There is a sense of pride and pleasure that I enjoyed while being a working girl. And I miss it, sometimes. Actually, a lot of the time.

But I don't want to judge anyone for their decision. Everyone has their own set of circumstances and each family is responsible for their own. And you never know what is going on behind closed doors. And it's on one else's place to think they know. Because no one ever really knows.

I like your thoughts. You've done a good job pointing out the black, the white, and the gray. Love HTT!

Anonymous said...

I feel so lucky to be a stay at home mom. Lucky that my husband is smart, healthy, and willing to work so I can stay at home with the kiddos. I have worked a lot, including full-time from home with a nanny for my first born, and I think being a mom is way more challenging/hard. I miss the nice clothes, the double income, and going to lunch w/out the kiddos everyday. But I have so much fun and I feel so free, that I wouldn't go back and miss these precious formative years if you made me president and paid me millions (i'd ask you to hold off a few years!). I really worry for those that are missing their kids grow up and won't realize it until it's too late. But their are always circumstances (like a very young widower with 4 kids I just met) and I believe their are exceptions to everything and that we are not to judge, only help and love, right? But I did just hear part of a great Faust talk on self-esteem that states something like "live to be unencumbered" and he was talking more about drugs, but I think about finances, so that if my husband is unable to work, we won't be so financially strapped, and hopefully have prepared savings, etc. to make it through.

Anonymous said...

maybe this introduces even more controversy, but here in canada we have the option not just of maternity leave, but "parental leave" making it possible for dads to stay at home.

I wonder, are we talking specifically about "stay at home moms" or a "stay at home parent"? Is there something specific about the "stay at homer" being a mom? What are the thoughts on dad as primary care giver? My husband and i plan to share the "at home status" when our child is born, our careers make it possible, and we both look forward to the opportunity to give this kind of attention to our child.

Carina said...

Oh what a HTT! I’ve been pretty vocal about my feelings working full time while I have small kids at home. It’s hard. It’s devastating. It keeps our lights on. It’s…well, what I wished for (more on that later.)

My mom worked when we were growing up and frankly, it was a good thing. My parents are professors which are ideal careers for raising children and working—there was always a parent at home. My dad combed our hair and made our lunches just as often as my mom.

It taught me that there was no such thing as women’s work or men’s work. There were times that my American-born dad was a lot more sympathetic than my foreign-born mom. She was able to stay home when we were very small. I think she started teaching again when I was five or six, making my youngest sister a baby at the time. It was necessary to put food on the table.

As I grew up, it NEVER EVEN occurred to me that I wouldn’t want to work. I just assumed that I’d have kids and work with no guilt or stress. I was a career gal! I had places to go!
I married Other Half and six years later we had our first. That was also when Other Half had a major heart shift and wanted, no, needed to switch careers. He quit his job and went back to school, I had to support us.

I am SO LUCKY that I live near my amazing family. My baby was cared for by my sisters or my parents when he weren’t with my husband. It wrenched my heart out to leave my baby. Then we had a second baby because we were supposed to and then I had to leave two babies.

I don’t regret working hard in my early career. It afforded me the chance to pick a job that’s flexible and can be performed from home sometimes. My jobs have allowed us to graduate school with very low debt.

Do I envy SAHM? Sure I do! I wish that teachers made more money so that we could pay our modest mortgage on his salary.

This is a poignant week for me since my husband is going back to work. We’re going to officially be a two income family again. I hope it won’t be for long, but I have to resign myself that my husband is happy in his career and because of that, I’ll be working for a while longer.

Carina said...

To Anon:

See, that's what we thought. My husband was a SAHD for three years. I have to say, maybe your husband is different, but MY husband and I came to the conclusion pretty quickly that for some reason *ahem* I was better equipped emotionally and physically to care for our babies.

He just doesn't have the level of patience, the babies are just calmer when I'm there.

As a feminist I thought that as long as one parent was there it wouldn't matter. When it came to my kids, it turns out that it DID matter. The practicality ran smack into the idealism--and the idealism lost.

And don't get me started on how much better it is in Canada. It makes me SO ANGRY, FURIOUS AND WANT TO HIT PEOPLE that we don't have mandated paid maternity leave here. It makes me think that all these pro-family folks are hypocrites for not demanding paid leave for moms and then decrying us for leaving our newborns. But that's another hot topic for another day.

*phew* that got me a little hot under the collar!

mommie said...

Thank you Mrs. Dub, for reaffirming to me that it was all worth it. But . . . to be perfectly honest, I don't ever remember wishing I was a working mom. Let's face it, you guys were a hoot. Who wouldn't want to hang out with you 24/7.

And yes . . . you did try and push it sometimes.

I forgive you.

Anonymous said...

What I'm wondering, is where you guys find all these wonderful jobs working from home?

Coco said...

What a Hot Topic. Mrs. Dub, you did a great job of not leaning one way or the other too much. This is a topic I struggle with a lot. I am the bread winner in our house hold. My DH is the stay at home parent for the most part. His mom babysits when he has to go to school and then he works a part time job at night so we treasure the time we see each other.

Right now I don't have the choice to be a stay at home mom so I don't worry about whether it is right for me or not, but I am a firm believer that it is a choice that should be made between a husband and wife and really it isn't anyone else's business. I know with my personality even working a few hours a week would make me a better mom than not, whereas my sister could be a 100% SAHM. And I don't believe if I worked part time that would be selfish, more out of sanity issues.

I read once (I don't remember where) that SAHM's spend more time with their children, but working mom's have more quality time with their kids. I am not saying I agree with that at all, but I am saying that the time I have with my son is time I make his time. No TV, just Noah and mom time.

sara said...

I've also thought about this a lot although I haven't worked outside of home since 7 mo preg with our first. Have been able to stay home since that time. Hubs has always brought home enough bacon but the past few years I've done a little work at home, usually when the kids are asleep so it works out great. Now I'm teaching piano (from home) two afternoons a week, which I feel okay about but I don't want to expand much more than that, so I can be available for the kids all the time. A close friend of mine worked away from home the first year of her first baby's life; her husband had a very good job & she admitted that they just wanted the luxury income. That really bothered me. Also the fact that she would tell me stories about her baby having major blow-outs at daycare, and how glad she was that she hadn't been the one to clean it up! Something wrong with that attitude if you ask me.

I appreciate Leisha's comment about staying at home not ensuring anything -- making the time at home more quality is what I need to work on.

Lindsey from The R House said...

i love being able to stay at home with my baby! (...and hopefully more in the future.) we will never be wealthy; my husband is a social worker. we may never have a boat, a brand new hosue or money to take the kids to disneyworld (thank heavens for grandpas and grandmas who have already expressed a strong desire even though their only grandson is 3 months old!) but, i will be there to hear his first words, teach him to read on my lap, laugh with him at stoopid stuff, cry with him when we gets hurt and be there when he gets home from school ...just like my mom was for me. (LOVE HER! i swear she walks on water!)

i resigned from my teaching job before we went to pick tyson up from him birthparents. it was risky, but worth it. i have a small company that i run from our house, but it that ever starts to take over more of my time than tyson, i will resign from it also.

if something were to happen to mr. r and i would have to go back to work, i would. i would probably cry all the way there every day like so many of the teachers at my school last year, but i would do it.

i admire mothers who work because they have to. i don't always know who you are and i try not to judge as i know your two jobs must leave you totally exhausted. hang in there. i will say a little prayer for you.

Alifinale said...

This is a hot topic. I used to be embarrassed because all I wanted to be was a stay at home mom. But my career aspiration is to be successful as a mother and I am no longer ashamed of that. My little girl is only 18 months and I have had to work about 15 hours/week out of the home up until about a month ago and it was hard but necessary and I knew there was an end in sight. Now I am able to work strictly from home and only during nap times and I am very grateful for that (but still count down the time until I can be done with other work all together).

I am with you that I understand that everyone's situation is unique (I have a friend whose husband is psychologically incapable to hold a job) and I think it is important not to judge others when you don't know their situation. But I do feel being a mother is the most important thing I can do and i strive to be a good one. Plus, what other job lets you go to the park or to the pool everyday?

Anonymous said...

Okay, Mrs. Dub. You are so hip and happening. Or maybe it is because you are in Chicago along with this show. But I just saw the last 10 minutes of Oprah and today's show is about THIS topic. Could it be that the Oprah show producer's are checking your blog for Hot Topics for their program? :) You have no idea how popular you have become!!

I didn't see the whole show, but from what I did see, it was very interesting. Like one mom who chose to work was talking about how she totally regretted missing out on her children's first words, steps, etc. Another mom who chose to stay home with her kids regrets that she totally gave up her career for her children and now feels regret that she "lost herself" by staying home. Just interesting stuff. Check it out if you can see a re-run later (it is on again at 9pm in AZ).

hilari said...

jamie,
i too thought - wow dub, hip with the oprah schedule. i have to say that i love being at home with my kids. i get to have more freedom in my day then if i had to sit in a cubicle. my husband has worked hard for this. the worst of it was when he had 15 credit hours of school, an internship and two jobs. i was at home at that time with a two year old and a newborn. it was hard. anyways,
i am all for doing something for yourself. i have a catering job that allows some personal growth, income, and hopefully more $ in the future. although, i know that i would be physically ill to have to leave my boys every day 8-5. one last thing, there are those lazy men who would rather have their wife go to work than pick up a second job.

Pam said...

Interesting topic. The transition to motherhood has been a very hard one for me. When my daughter was a month old, I was ready to be back at work. I worked extending my maternity leave for four months, toggling babysitting with my husband's graduate school schedule. I am grateful my husband and sister had the chance to stay home with my daughter and get to know her, sadly an opportunity which he or she will probably never have again. I am also grateful for the opportunity I had to go back to work to help me transition to more to stay-at-home schedule.

I have decided to stay home since, only working part time. This has been hard decision with a husband still in school. I feel don't feel like this issue is black and white. Although I think staying at home is the ideal situation for every family and child, I don't feel good about using government programs to provide my stay-at-home lifestyle as well.

Definately a grey area, and one that require a lot of prayer and soul searching...especially when hubbies are still in school.

Colleen said...

I'm a SAHM and loving it. Mostly. Honestly, I never considered the possibility of working once I started having kids. I got a degree and worked for five years after college and once I got pregnant I started counting down to "retirement." (Ha ha.) I miss the social aspect of working, but I'm glad I can feel like I'm doing something meaningful with my time now, even if "meaningful" often comes down to changing diapers and singing the ABC song over and over (and over).

Overall, I'm a gray kind of girl. I understand that there are extenuating circumstances where moms sometimes need to work, for whatever reason. I just can't see letting someone else raise my child. It breaks my heart to even think of it.

kristenita said...

I say the issue is REALLY SKINNY black and white stripes. generally I think it's better for mama to be home. BUT...

I always thought I would stay at home. until I became a dental hygienist. then I thought - hey, this is the perfect job, maybe I will work one or two days a week. until I had baby cutest. now I never want to "work" again. unless the man dies and I absolutely have to. but let's not go into how devastating that would be.

so yes, I am all for being at home. but then I also feel torn. like maybe I SHOULD be working here and there. and yes, the $ would be nice. and yes, wouldn't I be working on my talent, my gift? using the education I have gotten? those are all good things, right? yes, I got great fulfillment from my work. but then I get the GREATEST fulfillment from the little guy & don't want to miss a minute of him. at least until he's maybe in school.

it does make me sad though, watching/hearing some of my friends work so they can have the nicer house (they admit they can't afford without both spouses working) and the nicer car. but these mama-friends of mine are SO BUSY & ALWAYS stressed out about the time away & then trying to catch up with the home and family & the rest of life. at that point, when it's basically for EXTRA & increasing your stress and chaos levels more than anything else, I think the mamas should stay home and be able to have time to enjoy the little ones.

I'm glad my mommy was home with me. and I'm glad she's still home when I call and need someone to talk to! and I want to be like her.

Anonymous said...

Women should stay at home with the kids. They should also cook and clean. Men should bring home the money. Isn't that the traditional '50s family we should all be?

P.S. Canada stinks and no we shouldn't pay women for going out on maternity. Should we pay everyone that has to be out of work for an extended medical leave? That is called Short Term Disability. Sign up for it.

kelly said...

as always, i'm late to the party. but i thought i'd share my 2 cents....

growing up i never really thought of myself as the mom type. i figured i'd have kids, but i wanted to be a business woman.

when i got married my hubby had just started law school, we had just bought a condo, so babies weren't really an option, not that i wanted them so early in the marriage.

a couple of years go by, i was still working, but bored, we still had some more law school not to mention the bar, so still no babies... i decided to go back and get my MBA. with 2 semesters until i finished, i had my first. i stayed home for 6 months, but then had to go back to work. to my total surprise, it was the hardest thing i ever had to do. but, there was no way around it. my hubby still had to study for the bar, there was no way he could work, and money doesn't grow on trees. it was sad to leave my baby with someone else, but had to be done.

i worked for as long as i could possibly stand it. 6 months. it was hard, it definitely got easier, but i am much happier at home. but, i now work from home. which is both a blessing and a curse. i love the flexibility, the extra money it provides, and the ability to use my brain occasionally. but, i hate that i feel like i always should be doing something. like right now... probably shouldn't be blogging, probably should be working.

if someone were to ask me... i'd say stay home.

janaya said...

oh man,... you DIDN'T just say "canada stinks"!?! hold me back girls! :)

acte gratuit said...

Since I'm two days late and your readers have surely moved on to more current posts, I think I'll be blunt and un-p.c. I agree there are exceptions. Of course there are. But I think too many women (and families) try to make themselves into the "exception" for purely selfish reasons.

I absolutely don't buy the "it makes me a better mom to be away from my kids" line. It may make you FEEL better, (self indulgence usually does) but it DOESN'T make you a better MOTHER to leave your kids, with someone else, on a regular basis. Mothering is about your kids. NOT YOU!

Of course women need breaks and of course staying home can be horrible and exhausting and unfullfilling. But it's not about what's best for you! You brought this kid into the world, now do what is best for your KID! Wait until your baby is in school, then go back to work during school hours if you must.

As for the money reason, of course bills need to be paid, but I would ask this: Are you living beyond your means? Do you have 2 cars, pay for cell phones, cable, internet access and other expenses that could be eliminated? Because believe it or not, those things are luxuries and people really CAN live without them!

Okay, shutting up now. Just wanted to vent my personal feelings on the matter.

acte gratuit said...

And furthermore, while I'm preaching, you should all eat more fiber.

There. I said it.

Anonymous said...

acte gratiut - is it "self indulgent" to pay the mortgage, save for your childrens' college tuition or teach your kids the value of working hard? Don't be absurd. This isn't 1950 and it isn't selfish to work. Women are not bad mothers if they work outside the home and leave their kids with a nanny or daycare. I don't work because it makes me feel better - I work because of the financial benefits and I feel it's my responsibilty to contribute to my family's income. AND I want to show my kids that there is a value to working outside the home. AND we can go on vacation and have cable TV, 2 cars and cell phones, etc. Do you go without any of these things? Does anybody you know sacrifice these things? I doubt it.

Also, do you think it's so easy to get a job during school hours only? Or to get back into the workforce after you've been out for so long? I think you're living in a dream land. Jobs with cushy schedules are not so easy to come by. Maybe I have a different perspective because I live on the east coast and the cost of living is so much higher than Utah, but I don't know many moms that have the luxury of staying at home until their kids are in school.

Megan said...

I stalk your blog often & usually sign in under anonymous but decided what the heck.

anonymous - we go w/o cell phones, we have 1 car & we live off of student loans. I could work, but the money I would make would barely cover day care (and now that we are expecting #2 it wouldn't cover that.) So there are people who would rather go w/o. My mom worked growing up & I hated it. I am an adult & she still works & I still hate it. I think I am as excited for her to retire as she is. She did a great job of balancing home & family, but I still feel cheated to an extent.

Megan said...

It comes down to priorities. We all have our own & the order we choose to do so may be different. If it is important enough to stay home you can make it happen.

Anonymous said...

Megan - I agree with you. It is all about priorities. And I think if you choose to stay at home and you can make it work, that is great. I have nothing against stay at home moms.

What I object to is people like acte gratuit making blanket statements like:
"I absolutely don't buy the "it makes me a better mom to be away from my kids" line. It may make you FEEL better, (self indulgence usually does) but it DOESN'T make you a better MOTHER to leave your kids, with someone else, on a regular basis. Mothering is about your kids. NOT YOU!"

That just makes my blood boil. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. Just because I work, doesn't mean I am less of a mom or selfish in any way. I want my kids to have money for college and I want to have money in a retirement fund. I think that's practical - not selfish.

My point is, you are not a bad mom just because you choose to work.

Anonymous said...

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay home with a small business for almost the first four years with Her Maj, but at a certain point it came down to our inability to save for retirement and a college fund. It would be irresponsible to neglect this area and then expect either the state (good luck) or our child to foot the tab when we get older. Since we were (almost) able to live on my husband's salary, I am lucky enough to be able to use money to buy time with a weekly housekeeper. Time that I devote to my girl. It is very easy to make judgements about other people's lives until you live them. For the record I am not "having someone else raise my child", her father and I are responsible for making sure she is educated, develops good manners, social skills, and a sense of right and wrong.

acte gratuit said...

Anonymous,
I went without all those things for the first 6 years of my marriage. Now my husband is doing a residency and we still do without a LOT of luxaries. The ones we do have, we pay for with more student loans. When he finally does start working, we will have an incredible amount of debt to pay off. But for me, it was worth it to stay home.

I don't think working automatically means you're a bad mom or a bad person. But I personally believe it's a bad choice for your children. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Anonymous said...

ok, here is my two cents...

first off it is not good to judge either side. There are circumstances for every family. I still stick behind the LDS stance though, because I am LDS.

I did work the first three years while married while my husband was in medical school (no money making), after undergrad and after living in a studio apt and no kids we still barely survived. And that includes that we took out 4 major government loans, still unpaid and in crewing interest, AND two loans from NYU (expensive school). Now my hubby is in residency for 5 years and finally is making some money and I just worked my first year until I had my first child. Now I have two and I have been lucky enough to find a child care place at a health sports club that I work at one day a week (4-5) with my kids. They love it and I do to. It gives us something to do outside of the house. They get the chance to socialize with other kids too. It is not much for the money at all because it doesn't pay much, but we both all enjoy it. I don't feel guilty because it is every little work and my kids are with me, still getting my attention.

I don't know how people work and LEAVE their kids by choice. I just think how and why do you work and leave your child behind with some other care giver you have to pay! That does not make sense. You miss so much of your kids life and they miss out too. they are not selfish to want your time and attention, but you have to be careful if you are being selfish with your time and attention of who (work) you give it too. I am sure if dads (Canada or US) could stay home, some may want to, but I know they could not do anything close to what a mother does. I stick with the LDS Family Proclamation!

If you could work from home, that is great, but why? You are still taking time and attention away from your family.

By the way, my husband's mother worked most of all his lifetime and still does, whereas my mother never worked and stayed home. I loved it. So, we are a little different on that standing. Sometimes he aks if I want to work, but I prefer staying at home with my kids. Some days I am ready to tear my hair out and yell (and I do), but I get through it, and do take breaks (just not work breaks, because being mother is already work and I need a break from working.)

Anonymous said...

this is way late, but very interesting. I agree whole heartedly to acte gratuit. It may be harsh, but she is right. No, saving for college is not vital. I'm sorry, its extra. Too many people today think that things are necessary, when they absolutely are not. We went without cable, cell phones, hi speed internet, etc until it could fit into our single income budget.

And all I have to say is that for the LDS crowd, read the Proclamation to the Family. What does the Prophet of our great church say women should be doing? There most certainly is man's role and women's role. And there is nothing wrong with that. The world wants us to believe that if we aren't bringing in a dollar figure, we have less value. Now, no one would say they believe that, but the anonymous comment that said she was contributing to her families income obviouisly does on some level.

There are exceptions, and only we, as individuals can examine our motives for working or staying home, but as a SAHM I will make sure that my children know how much I love staying home with them. I have my moments of frustration, but I am so worried that all that the YW I work with at church won't want to stay home because of all the complaining we do about it, myself included.

janaya said...

i'm all for staying at home (as already indicated), but i don't think the proclamation on the family is the basis for making that decision. whatever family arrangement you might have, nowhere in the proclamation on the family does it say that a woman's place is in the home and a man's place is at the office.

"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children."

who's to say what the definition of "necessities of life" are and what "nuture" means? it no doubt indicates that parents are responsible for raising their children in a team effort, and doesn't really mention anything about a nanny (i'll give you that much), but there is a LOT of room for interpretation. a lot of room for prayerful consideration of what is right for your family. perhaps your husband will stay home and you will go to work. maybe that works out best in your home. i'd just be careful defining our specific roles and where we "belong" by the proclamation. responsibilities are one thing, the way we tackle those responsibilities are very open to interpretation.

(thanks for providing the soapbox mrs. dub... sorry to take a second round at it) :)

Anonymous said...

Someone just linked me to this page, so it's quite late and maybe no one will ever respond, but I wanted to express my thoughts.

I was encouraged by the reasonable and understanding comments left by the early posters. Then I was sad to see how it degenerated into competitive and judgmental comments about how one kind of mom must be better than another.

My point is that this decision should be made on a case by case basis. To make blanket statements on either side is ridiculous. Self indulgent? Yes, you can say that about the monstrous woman who decides to leave her precious baby to enter the big bad working world so she can buy a bigger house and nice shoes. You could just as easily apply that to the SAHM whose entire goal in life was to get married and have children and therefore never tried to do well at anything - academic, professional, etc, because she was just going to be a SAHM anyway, and why would she need to bother?

Those are extremes, and I happen to believe most people fit somewhere in between.

But if we're going to make polarizing generalizations here, I'm going to defend the working women, because I think they've been unfairly maligned. I think being a SAHM can be a cop-out. Yes, I said it. I think that some women just give up, don't want to think or work hard, and therefore hide behind their husbands and trust them to provide (and hopefully they do). [Disclaimer: I realize children can be hard work. But it's hard in a different sense. If you don't clean your house or bathe your children every day, no one is going to fire you. If your cooking stinks or your child says a bad word, you still get to keep your job. In other words, job security is not an issue,]

If we're using anecdotal evidence, I can think of many young women in the wards I've been over the years that seem to have nothing in their pretty heads other than diapers and baby clothes, car seats and binkys. And I always felt like they looked down on me for pursuing a professional degree and a career. Babies don't stay babies forever, and at some point you're going to have to teach your children more than the ABCs. And my husband tells me that he is glad to have an educated wife who can teach the kids about algebra, political science, making choices, financial realities, and the real world.

There are SAHMs who can't run a household to save their lives, so their husbands work all day and come home and do the cooking and cleaning for them. There are SAHMs who have nannies anyway so they can lunch with their friends and get manicures and "me time." There are SAHMs who spend all morning long reading blogs, and then spend all afternoon at a play group gossiping with their friends while the children run around ignoring them completely. And these are the women who congratulate themselves on the "sacrifices" they make so they can "nurture" their children.

Now that I've been sufficiently rude, I want to emphasize that I was doing it on purpose. I admire many SAHMs for the wonderful things they do, and the sacrifices they make for their children. Most of them are intelligent and thoughtful women who made the conscious decision to spend the formative years at home with their children. And I applaud them for that. In fact, I may follow in their footsteps very soon. I would just rather not have women put into distinct categories: SAHM = GOOD. WORKING MOM = BAD. There are good and bad mothers in both categories. Think about the whole package before judging.

acte gratuit said...

Dear Annonymous/Comment 45,
1. Why, if you have the courage of your convitions, are you posting anonymously?
2. One kind of mother IS better than the other. There is plenty of statistical evidence (and gospel evidence) to back that up. (Notice I didn't say one is bad and one is good.)
3. Your presumptions and judgement are ASTOUNDING considering you're condemming me for being judgemental!